Without air pump..
01-08-04, 04:05 PM
#26
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Originally posted by RotorMotor
vacuum lines (have they been changed recently?)
any other symptoms? im wondering why your idle is so low? did you fiddle w/ the idle adjustment screws? it may be that all the throttle stuff is working right.... you might just have a vacuum leak. doing the vacuum lines is not for the faint of heart... and the intake gasket isnt eather (the turbos have to come off). im willing to help w/ questions, as well as everyone else here, since ive been through it before... so if you decide to do it let me know. -heath
vacuum lines (have they been changed recently?)
any other symptoms? im wondering why your idle is so low? did you fiddle w/ the idle adjustment screws? it may be that all the throttle stuff is working right.... you might just have a vacuum leak. doing the vacuum lines is not for the faint of heart... and the intake gasket isnt eather (the turbos have to come off). im willing to help w/ questions, as well as everyone else here, since ive been through it before... so if you decide to do it let me know. -heath
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=248093
The idle if it wasn't for jumping up and down it would be ok at 750.
I did not play with trottle cable adjustment nor the screw, Intake gaskets should be ok even though i used a thin layer of high heat silicone gasket prior to installation of the UIM, but hey you never know right.
I'm pretty sure that it has to do with the ECU not seeing the air pump and cousing the idle lumpiness.
01-08-04, 08:48 PM
#27
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^maybe so about the air pump, but it really really sounds like the symptoms i had (and they went away w/ an electrical load as like yours). has your intake gasket ever been done? when i took mine out it was the old paper type and completly disintegrated... took me an hour w/ a razor to scrape all the old gasket off. the new ones are metal
Last edited by RotorMotor; 01-08-04 at 08:51 PM.
01-08-04, 10:01 PM
#28
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[qoute]has you intake gasket ever been done[/quote]
No never, it's paper and all cracked to, that's why I put some high heat silicone.
Who sels the metal ones I'd like those?
No never, it's paper and all cracked to, that's why I put some high heat silicone.
Who sels the metal ones I'd like those?
Last edited by TwinTurbo93; 01-08-04 at 10:12 PM.
01-09-04, 04:05 AM
#29
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mazda... they discontinued the paper ones. call ray at malloy mazda, he will hook you up. also buy new gaskets for your turbo inlets and outlets (4), new UIM-> LIM gasket, and a few turbo oil return line gaskets. that should fix your problem
01-09-04, 09:39 AM
#30
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OK here is the result:
I went to radio shack and got me a lil pack of 330 ohm resistors for .99c, I cut the connector that used to connect to the air pump and just put the resistor on it.
Started the car,,, super, no ugly idling no more, very stedy, no more up-down ported motor like idling, it warmed up fully, took her out the garage for a ride seemed ok for 1/2 hour or so came back perfect, wow
As Mr. rynberg said it will not do anything I wasn't even gonna try it but I figured what the hell I'm gonna loose so got the resistor put it on and is working very nicely.
The ECU thinks that the air pump is there and keeps the idle steady, when I take it off it starts limpin again.
I know that the resistor may not last long in the under hood temps of our rotaries but hey is worth a change once a year right?
Thank you all for so many great ideas and all the help you have given to me.
John...
I went to radio shack and got me a lil pack of 330 ohm resistors for .99c, I cut the connector that used to connect to the air pump and just put the resistor on it.
Started the car,,, super, no ugly idling no more, very stedy, no more up-down ported motor like idling, it warmed up fully, took her out the garage for a ride seemed ok for 1/2 hour or so came back perfect, wow
Originally posted by rynberg
Why do you think that would do anything? It won't. The ecu sends a signal to turn the air pump on for idle and low revs. The ecu expects that air to be pumped into the intake tract. When it isn't, the car will run richer than optimal. It doesn't matter if you put a resistor there or not, the ecu expects the air to be there, period.
Why do you think that would do anything? It won't. The ecu sends a signal to turn the air pump on for idle and low revs. The ecu expects that air to be pumped into the intake tract. When it isn't, the car will run richer than optimal. It doesn't matter if you put a resistor there or not, the ecu expects the air to be there, period.
The ECU thinks that the air pump is there and keeps the idle steady, when I take it off it starts limpin again.
I know that the resistor may not last long in the under hood temps of our rotaries but hey is worth a change once a year right?
Thank you all for so many great ideas and all the help you have given to me.
John...
01-09-04, 05:05 PM
#31
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wow... well im glad as well as surprized thats all it took! i would recomend doing that intake gasket @ some point, but i guess if its hanging in there then cool. can you tell me about the resistor you used? how many ohms etc? did you just measure how many ohms the air pump was? im considering removing the airpump but im still very concerned about having enough leverage on that water pump. heath
01-09-04, 06:55 PM
#32
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im going to try this with my wide band and see if it actually leans out properly.....ive tested the afr's with and without the pump plugged in and with the pump it idles at around 18:1 and without the pump plugged in it goes to 11:1.....rich like a bitch.....so ill try the resistor and report back.....
02-04-05, 10:29 AM
#37
A little late to the discussion, but I'll add my 2 cents anyway...
From a technical standpoint, it seems impossible for the resistor to do anything that affects idle.
The ECU controls the airpump (AP) through a relay. This relay serves to electrically-isolate the AP from the ECU. The resistor-trick works for a solenoid because the ECU can directly measure across the solenoid's coil for an open or short circuit. In the AP's case, it can only measure the Airpump-Relay's coil, which is present even when the AP is removed. Hence the ECU has no way of 'knowing' whether the AP is actually connected or not.
All that to say that the resistor you added might as well have been placed across the battery, there's no electrical difference. There must be another explanation...
From a technical standpoint, it seems impossible for the resistor to do anything that affects idle.
The ECU controls the airpump (AP) through a relay. This relay serves to electrically-isolate the AP from the ECU. The resistor-trick works for a solenoid because the ECU can directly measure across the solenoid's coil for an open or short circuit. In the AP's case, it can only measure the Airpump-Relay's coil, which is present even when the AP is removed. Hence the ECU has no way of 'knowing' whether the AP is actually connected or not.
All that to say that the resistor you added might as well have been placed across the battery, there's no electrical difference. There must be another explanation...
Originally Posted by TwinTurbo93
OK here is the result:
I went to radio shack and got me a lil pack of 330 ohm resistors for .99c, I cut the connector that used to connect to the air pump and just put the resistor on it.
Started the car,,, super, no ugly idling no more, very stedy, no more up-down ported motor like idling, it warmed up fully, took her out the garage for a ride seemed ok for 1/2 hour or so came back perfect, wow
As Mr. rynberg said it will not do anything I wasn't even gonna try it but I figured what the hell I'm gonna loose so got the resistor put it on and is working very nicely.
The ECU thinks that the air pump is there and keeps the idle steady, when I take it off it starts limpin again.
I know that the resistor may not last long in the under hood temps of our rotaries but hey is worth a change once a year right?
Thank you all for so many great ideas and all the help you have given to me.
John...
I went to radio shack and got me a lil pack of 330 ohm resistors for .99c, I cut the connector that used to connect to the air pump and just put the resistor on it.
Started the car,,, super, no ugly idling no more, very stedy, no more up-down ported motor like idling, it warmed up fully, took her out the garage for a ride seemed ok for 1/2 hour or so came back perfect, wow
As Mr. rynberg said it will not do anything I wasn't even gonna try it but I figured what the hell I'm gonna loose so got the resistor put it on and is working very nicely.
The ECU thinks that the air pump is there and keeps the idle steady, when I take it off it starts limpin again.
I know that the resistor may not last long in the under hood temps of our rotaries but hey is worth a change once a year right?
Thank you all for so many great ideas and all the help you have given to me.
John...
Last edited by patriick; 02-04-05 at 10:43 AM.
02-04-05, 04:56 PM
#38
Originally Posted by patriick
A little late to the discussion, but I'll add my 2 cents anyway...
From a technical standpoint, it seems impossible for the resistor to do anything that affects idle.
The ECU controls the airpump (AP) through a relay. This relay serves to electrically-isolate the AP from the ECU. The resistor-trick works for a solenoid because the ECU can directly measure across the solenoid's coil for an open or short circuit. In the AP's case, it can only measure the Airpump-Relay's coil, which is present even when the AP is removed. Hence the ECU has no way of 'knowing' whether the AP is actually connected or not.
All that to say that the resistor you added might as well have been placed across the battery, there's no electrical difference. There must be another explanation...
From a technical standpoint, it seems impossible for the resistor to do anything that affects idle.
The ECU controls the airpump (AP) through a relay. This relay serves to electrically-isolate the AP from the ECU. The resistor-trick works for a solenoid because the ECU can directly measure across the solenoid's coil for an open or short circuit. In the AP's case, it can only measure the Airpump-Relay's coil, which is present even when the AP is removed. Hence the ECU has no way of 'knowing' whether the AP is actually connected or not.
All that to say that the resistor you added might as well have been placed across the battery, there's no electrical difference. There must be another explanation...
The best thing I've ever done for my idle is buy a pfc. That thing is amazing.
02-04-05, 11:41 PM
#39
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Unorthodox has an idler pulley for air pump removal. See pic on the page.
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/mazda_rx7.html
Expensive but what is peace of mind worth?
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/mazda_rx7.html
Expensive but what is peace of mind worth?
02-05-05, 01:44 PM
#42
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OK another thing----btw I searched and all I came up with is use an electric airpump or use a midpipe---neither of which I want to do.
Question is: I have a high flow cat and don't want it ruined---I'm in process of rebuilding the engine and want to take the ACV and other systems that rely on the air pump out of there, but has anyone left the airpump connected directly to the main cat?
PFC is on the way......
Question is: I have a high flow cat and don't want it ruined---I'm in process of rebuilding the engine and want to take the ACV and other systems that rely on the air pump out of there, but has anyone left the airpump connected directly to the main cat?
PFC is on the way......
Last edited by RotaryWhat?; 02-05-05 at 01:50 PM.
02-05-05, 02:56 PM
#43
Originally Posted by RotaryWhat?
OK another thing----btw I searched and all I came up with is use an electric airpump or use a midpipe---neither of which I want to do.
Question is: I have a high flow cat and don't want it ruined---I'm in process of rebuilding the engine and want to take the ACV and other systems that rely on the air pump out of there, but has anyone left the airpump connected directly to the main cat?
PFC is on the way......
Question is: I have a high flow cat and don't want it ruined---I'm in process of rebuilding the engine and want to take the ACV and other systems that rely on the air pump out of there, but has anyone left the airpump connected directly to the main cat?
PFC is on the way......
I assume that the LS1 air pump moves less air so it might be a better option.
02-05-05, 03:05 PM
#44
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I removed it and blocked everything off... she idled smooth at 800rpm, no probs -- my concern is still partial to the waterpump pully but I'm working on solutions to that as I can see why others worry as well.
~Kris
~Kris
02-05-05, 03:06 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by poss
I assume that the LS1 air pump moves less air so it might be a better option.
02-05-05, 04:52 PM
#46
I haven't really decided yet. I currently have a midpipe on my car and I bought a gotham HF cat with the intentions of installing it and not smelling like exhaust every time I go somewhere. The gotham cat has a cap over the air inlet tube so I asked steve about it and he said that it would be fine to run it w/o an air pump.
I have done alot of reading about the air pump vs no air pump debate and I'm still on the fence. Someone also posted that the LS1 pump, run at 9 volts, will not burn up if you run it off the stock air pump logic/relay. (Where as it will burn up when run at 12v)
I have done alot of reading about the air pump vs no air pump debate and I'm still on the fence. Someone also posted that the LS1 pump, run at 9 volts, will not burn up if you run it off the stock air pump logic/relay. (Where as it will burn up when run at 12v)
02-05-05, 05:12 PM
#47
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If anyone still has doubts about this lert me clear it up:
Yes you can eliminate the air pump with no problems what-so-ever. Please disconnect the negative before working.
Zip tie the female connector to a safe place and wrap it with electrical tape so the 2 wires never touch. No resistor necessary.
You can remove the little adjustment bracket- it obviously sticks out and does nothing with the air pump gone.
You can run a 300 mm 4 rib belt temporarily until you get the Greddy alternator and water pump traction pulleys and the proper 5 rib belt they come with.
You can raise your idle to improve it after it worsens from removing the gay *** air pump.
Make sure to plug the 2 metal tubes that are left open between the upper intale manifold and the abs. Large rubber caps from the auto parts store are perfect unless you want to go through the trouble of removing the upper intake manifold to use a block-off plate where the tubes come from.
Say hello to your secondary turbo. Now you can install an efini y-pipe and build a cold air box/shield for your air filters easier.
Yes you can eliminate the air pump with no problems what-so-ever. Please disconnect the negative before working.
Zip tie the female connector to a safe place and wrap it with electrical tape so the 2 wires never touch. No resistor necessary.
You can remove the little adjustment bracket- it obviously sticks out and does nothing with the air pump gone.
You can run a 300 mm 4 rib belt temporarily until you get the Greddy alternator and water pump traction pulleys and the proper 5 rib belt they come with.
You can raise your idle to improve it after it worsens from removing the gay *** air pump.
Make sure to plug the 2 metal tubes that are left open between the upper intale manifold and the abs. Large rubber caps from the auto parts store are perfect unless you want to go through the trouble of removing the upper intake manifold to use a block-off plate where the tubes come from.
Say hello to your secondary turbo. Now you can install an efini y-pipe and build a cold air box/shield for your air filters easier.
02-06-05, 05:21 PM
#48
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Damn, a dead thread alive again, I thought even the skeleton was ashes already, I guess not, lol...
Using a OHM meter you can messure the ressistance of the air pump connector, it supposed to read between 180 idle to 600 at around 3k rpm right befoe the air pump is supposed to be shut down by the ECU.
This is a year ago way before I got the PFC
I soldered a 450 OHM ressistor (twice in 3-4 months period) and wrapped it w/tape to prevent from burning out from the temps of the motor, the idle was NOT fully cured but at least my car didn't idle like a bridge port anymore.
Somehow the ressistor helped,,, .
9-10 months later I got a PFC and trashed the ressistor.
Using a OHM meter you can messure the ressistance of the air pump connector, it supposed to read between 180 idle to 600 at around 3k rpm right befoe the air pump is supposed to be shut down by the ECU.
This is a year ago way before I got the PFC
I soldered a 450 OHM ressistor (twice in 3-4 months period) and wrapped it w/tape to prevent from burning out from the temps of the motor, the idle was NOT fully cured but at least my car didn't idle like a bridge port anymore.
Somehow the ressistor helped,,, .
9-10 months later I got a PFC and trashed the ressistor.
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