ramo

iTrader: (30)

I really dont get it, theres tons of threads on reliability mods you should do to the car when you buy it (I had them all done asap)

But every time I see a stock FD on the FS thread, ppl are so eager and happy to purchase it stock and make comments like, "Id like to drive a stock rx7, it needs no modification at all, Its so nice" and these are comments from the veterans on the forum

So Im just asking for an explanation lol

Cause you should do the reliability mods, but at the same time, stock is just fine?

I would rather do the mods and have a safer car, soooo let the bantering commence!

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

The only way I see a stock RX7 great is if its a completely stock car with like 30k miles. Id keep it completely stock and have it as like a trophy. Showroom quality stock is so appealing and sexy you forget its a 20 year old car.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I think its for several reasons-

If it is 100% stock and unmolested it was not owned by an enthusiast that was driving it hard/racing it.

These nice stock FDs are usually low enough miles they have never needed reliability mods.

Many many times modifications are poorly done and decrease the value of the car.

theorie

iTrader: (31)

I think people are mostly refering to "stock" as in, not molested (body kits, performance mods, etc.)

I would still consider a car "stock" if it had basic reliability mods.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

and make comments like, "Id like to drive a stock rx7, it needs no modification at all, Its so nice" and these are comments from the veterans on the forum

Sounds like regret doesn't it?

I try to keep this in mind all the time as I dream of more performance with my FD. I have been down that road before with my FC. There is a balance that should be maintained for a street car or recreational race car.

ramo

iTrader: (30)

I want a car to drive, not look at

I get your point though

ramo

iTrader: (30)

well I think I saw goodfella make some comments on the low mileage stock FD's, he seems to like them a lot


I guess if you want them to sit in the garage 11 months out of the year to keep them low mileage, then it's for you. I don't have tons of money like a lot of people on here must have to just have a car to look at

ZE Power MX6

iTrader: (157)

I think people just want to buy a car that has not been unmolested, not sure if they will keep it that way once they bought it.

ramo

iTrader: (30)

that makes sense, I havent been in a rx7 that fast, or a completely stock one, so I don't know either world, Im right in the middle with 290 whp, It is very bumpy, and It does have minor difficulties from time to time


thanks for the response!

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

this is the main reason i see why people want a stock car.

most FDs have been touched by inexperienced owners or shops, which actually reduces reliability.

it's very rare i see a bone stock FD come in, in fact it's like finding a dinosaur roaming the streets as in you just don't see them and are shocked when you do. many FDs are in boxes of parts and never get put back together quite correctly.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i think a lot of FD owners get carried away doing mods. over the years i've driven FD's from stock to pretty wild and the most fun setup is just a downpipe and tires. you'd think adding 50 more hp would make it 50 more fun, but it doesn't, its probably 50 less fun, unless you live on a drag strip.

as a corollary to that, stock is probably not the cheapest way to go, although once you have the mechanicals sorted its pretty reliable

ramo

iTrader: (30)

But if the reliability mods were done the right way, would you prefer that over a completely stock fd with the same amount of miles?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

if the mods were done by a professional shop then i think people are less hesitant to buy a slightly modded car.

i have seen modified cars go for decent prices but they were documented, low mile and moderately modified. highly modified cars generally sell for right around blue book.

even bone stock low mile cars have issues if they weren't well maintained.

Ceylon

iTrader: (3)

^This imo.

Anything running sequential twins with oem bodywork/interior is basically stock in my eyes.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

The stock car was very well balanced. Everything pretty much worked with everything else. The car is a system. Reliability mods notwithstanding, once you start modding, looking for a little bit "more" X or "less" Y, you make compromises—noise, heat, vibration, comfort, etc.

I still remember my first stock R1. That car was sweet. But, the quest for MORE gets you. Then you end up with what's in my sig.

ramo

iTrader: (30)

I thought the most important mod was going from twins to single or porting the engine, I feel like all the other mods are very simple to put on and cant be messed up unless you re wire a fuel pump incorrectly or relocate the battery wrong.

Intercooler, exhaust, intakes, that all seems like really simple stuff to me, take it off and put what you want on, no room for error (in my book)

Ecu adjustments, suspension, fuel, I think those would need more attention and focus when applying them



--Omar

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

there are two issues, one is ham fisted mechanics, the other is bad quality parts


the metal AST's are made so poorly that they either corrode or otherwise fail from bad workmanship faster than a new OEM plastic one.

we don't have freezes in California though, so the plastic AST's do fine.

the other example is the down pipe. we all the think precat sucks, and it does, however some of the chinese ebay downpipes are so poorly made they hit the body, or otherwise are just crap. back in the day it was actually worth the money to buy a GOOD downpipe M2/HKS because they actually fit the car.

the third one is the silicon hose job. for every, "im doing the silicon hose job" thread, there is usually a "did the hose job now the car does or doesn't do XX or YY" thread. most people screw something up doing the hose job. its a simple fact that out of the 72 ish hoses only 11 of them see pressure. most of the hoses only see vacuum, and they are better left alone.

so can you do these mods successfully? yes. does everyone end up with a more reliable car? no. they just think they do.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

broken main harnesses, radiators not sitting on bottom mount tabs, intercoolers floating in engine bays, exhaust leaks from poorly fabbed work, cracked fiberglass body kits, ugly flush headlights(that fade), oil leaks from original or poorly resealed pans, etc, etc, etc.

you find most of the above from owners that couldn't afford or had the knowledge to do things right. some items you have to dig to find, others stick out like a sore thumb. even jobs most of us would consider easy as pie, you will find many people screw it up and take shortcuts or do it lazily.

Gilgamesh

my build from bone stock 55k to big single at 56k miles isn't a quest for MORE. its a goal of LESS!

less complicated wiring/turbo/engine. if 12psi nets me and more HP over stock ill be ok.

when i look through the classifieds at single turbo cars i scroll through the mod list and think " wouldn't have done that, whouldn't have cheaped out there, that part is useless, thats a pos with a new motor, it doesn't even have AC or heat" < this kind of car will go for 14k

I then see a beautiful car with forum sponsor's kits and support all over them with the RIGHT mods, not just check a box and order it mods. go for 20k then i know that my investment of time and money isn't such a bad one.

I have done all the work on my car, my theory is buy everything only once, which means quality peieces that are not really that much more than the cheaps ones in the grand scheme of things. but i know 80% of the people here dont have the shop nor resources that aide me daily in my build.

I wouldn't value someone's shop build weekend car over someone's home build daily that gets driven hard.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

everyone is weary of a 400whp single, because it makes nearly twice factory horsepower and less lenient if a problem does arise.

i will say this, no matter how diligent you are in modifying a car problems always present themselves. less power generally also means more reliability. there's saga threads regarding aftermarket "ubreakable" apex seals, numerous different coolant seal sets over OEM, fuel pump failure stories, threads with pages of safety mods resulting in dozens of gauges and click boxes in the cars.

many people just don't want to inherit a basket case, paying more to sort out problems than having a fresh platform to start with.

even the best shops have built cars that blew up just after break in, on the dyno or just after leaving it.

most people look for a car that has basic or no mods done. or they have fat wallets to cover issues that will arise.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

There is no way I would ever go back to the stock twins after going to my single turbo. I love my car and the mods I have performed to it. I am not cash strapped like many people and I did most of the mods myself. I had the help of another rx7 forum member who I am grateful for who helped me install a lot of the parts on the car. I even tuned the car myself and when thinking about stock just kills me.

I drove my roomies almost stock rx7 R1 and I loved the car, but my car is way more fun to drive and simple but it took a lot of money to get there and my time.

Most of the cars are 20 yrs old, they are going to need money into them anyway, so I think it is somewhat expected. I don't know, I like the way my car rides/drives/feels with a single turbo, suspension mods, new bushings, new fuel system, exhaust, open dump wastegate, 18" wheels, etc.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I don't know, I like the way my car rides/drives/feels with a single turbo, suspension mods, new bushings, new fuel system, exhaust, open dump wastegate, 18" wheels, etc.

There is no way I would ever go back to the stock twins after going to my single turbo

I think we are all saying, check back with us in 10 years. We understand your current viewpoint.

Even tuners like RE Amemiya are focusing more on keeping the stock twins in their cars like the 2012 420hp FD that won the Touge Championship (beating among others a 800hp R35 Skyline).

That is a car that some in this thread consider stock since it still has the sequential twins.

dcchris311

Just picked up my FD with what I think is low mileage for this car [IMG]
And it's all stock!!!

jagwrjack

iTrader: (3)

What I can't understand is that probably most buyers are first attracted to the FDs fantastic look.
Hell, the C5 corvette was probably copied from it.
Then for some reason, they put on a body kit, apparently thinking they're improving on it.
Why not find an ugly car and try to improve it with a body kit.
Then there's he (mod) of converting to non-sequential. It's not a mod. It's because you can't fix
the problem with the factory sequentially.
There ! I feel better now.

SA3R

I've never liked the idea of people just bolting parts on what used to be a good stock running, unmolested FD, which ran fine and had zero problems.

I look at a lot of the build threads (some of them make me cringe... I sit on the laptop next to my fiancee and point at the screen- "look at this thing- look at what they did here- look at that" and she knows nothing about cars, yet she even finds it atrocious), and most of the time it goes from "Here's my car, bone stock" at the beginning, to "Then I stuck a big intercooler and an exhaust system on it for more power. And some poorly-fit wheels and nasty steering wheel. Then I went crazy and heat insulated everything in the engine bay because I could, and screwed with the vacuum lines because I know vacuum routing better than the engineers who designed it. Then I put an aftermarket ECU in it, which has absolutely zero knock-retard control, and fiddled with the settings because again, I know more than the Mazda engineers who originally tuned the stock ECU
And then the car goes bang, and then they fix it, and then they change some more parameters, and then they lose track of where they were, even further, so they throw more go-fast bits on it, at the advice of forum members, and it goes bang again.... Then its up for sale.
Then you get these comments about how unreliable it was, etc coming into the forums.
It was not unreliable before you started f@$%&ing with it!!!!!

Dont get me started on the nice clean stock FDs which people then thoughtlessly hack into pieces and rattle can spray into "drift machines". Those sorts of things make it hard for me to sleep at night, knowing they've killed another perfectly good FD and resigned it to a life of bashing and ill-fitting parts and poor paint and dirt and grime, and fluorescent decals and stickers plastered all over it, killing its pedigree and taking the pedigree of all FDs down a notch in the process.
Mazda will never make another FD. They are scarce. Why kill them needlessly??

Reliable? Yes they can be. I beat to death my own story about my car having low mileage (79,000 original km) when I got it. I did not go crazy and add a bunch of things to it. I serviced it properly, maintain it, I will only change or add a component after evalualting if this will make the car worse or better, decrease or increase its value, etc. And I have driven my FD every day for 3 years straight and I have only ever had one problem happen with my car- the power window switch contacts needed cleaning. My car has cost me $0.00 in repairs over 3 years. It has cost me $$ in maintenance, but all vehicles do. But it has been my daily driver through 3 winters and 3 summers, covering 100km every day on average, in 41.8C outside temps in traffic, to -2C torrential rain in winter, and my car still goes on.

And that is what makes a stock car so good. Nobody has monkeyed with it. I can have complete faith in it. And buyers know this. That is why they will pay more for one.