00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

is it because the 850s are so easily bored to 1300?

or because 1000cc is such a small step above 850 that it is not worth it?

I do not see anyone running 1000cc secondaries.



I personally am interested in keeping sequential twins, eventually going to the '99s but staying at 1bar / 14.5psi.

Was looking at the Injector dynamics ID1000, and they offer 1000cc or 2000cc, nothing in between. I do not plan on single turbo or super high boost, 2000 seemed overkill.

thoughts?

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

They have the new 1300cc. There's also bosch ev14 1600cc same injector that ID are made from.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

This

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

+1

The days of "boring" out original injectors should long be forgotten....

Spend some time with this fuel calculator..

3rd Generation Fuel Calculator

Newer injectors are the WAY TO GO! Bosch EV14's are leaps and bounds ahead of the FD's original injectors. Much more control and better atomization. Many run 1000's in the primary position with no idle or driveability issues. This also contributes to the 550/2000 combo. If the 2000 secondaries control better, the transitions will be smoother.

Why limit yourself to 1300cc if a 2000 is the same price, and easily controllable? Yes it's overkill, but it's not an unnecessary overkill. If you ever get fed up with the twins always breaking, and want to transition to a single turbo, you have enough fuel for 450whp. Or if you splurge for those BNR twins, you are covered.

Also, I personally would not upgrade the fuel system without replacing a 20 year old injector. Much of this is because as injectors age, their flow will vary. Of course, in the rotary world we say, "overbuild the fuel system". If you are on the edge of supported power, than there isn't room for growth, or wear. Are your 550cc primaries still flowing 550cc after 20 years? I doubt it.

Most FD's need a fresh fuel system. Newer body injectors, new rails and lines, FPR, and a new rewired pump. Do it once, and know things are completely covered.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

side feed injectors are inferior and have very little support. top feed injectors are the most common replacement and still the most common fuel injector type used today.

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

They aren't the same price...

ID1300 - $195 each

ID2000 - $240 each

Fuel: Fuel Injectors: Injector Dynamics Fuel Injectors: Universal Fuel Injectors

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

awesome thanks for the link! did not know I could find ID1300..

Looks like what I was looking for. Thank you for the input as well XLR8.

Question:
is it still recommended to not have a huge disparity between primary and secondary size? or does that not matter so much. I remember coming across this in older posts.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

The 1300s have a relatively high failure rate as they are just stock 850s bored out to 1300cc. I refuse to use them as I have had 2 sets fail on me this year alone that customers provided. The newer style injectors (id, bosch ev14) have a far superior spray pattern and are much easier to tune. Therefore, it is not an issue to run large secondaries like 2200. Let me know what you need. I get great deals on them.

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

If everything goes well with this one I am looking to purchase, I will be hitting you up shortly. Have visited your page/posts several times in regards to parts I'm after

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Ah, I wasn't thinking of ID's prices. I got mine from FIC. Though they aren't magical, they have been working very well.

www.fuelinjectorconnection.com

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Here's another fuel system calculator that has a fuel pump calculator built in. You can play with the different base fuel pressures to see what effect it has on max power for your fuel system. It also has RWHP which is nice.

Another reason to get larger than 1000cc is once you start upgrading you will not stop. Maybe later you go single turbo, at that point you will wish you went with the 1300-2000 cc in the beginning. For instance I was only planning on 400ish RWHP, I went with 550/1680, this is good for almost 500 rwhp. Well I was at 400+ for awhile and wanted more...more....more...
So a little later a bigger turbo + higher boost = duty cycles were getting into the 90's. Now I either had to upgrade my primaries to 850, go with even larger secondaries, or do what I did, add a second fuel pump and raise my base pressure to 50. This gave me the additional headroom of probably 80 RWHP. I have seen 90% duty a couple times since then, but I feel okay with that. Don't really feel like tuning the maps again.

I think raising the base pressures is a good way to get some extra power from your current fuel system. It also seemed like idle and throttle inputs were smoother, I think maybe the higher base pressure gave a finer atomization on the primaries. You will need a good fuel pump in order to raise pressure without having the flow drop off. Fuel pump rewire will also help with this by keeping the voltage up. Stock 550/850 injectors with a base pressure between 50-60 and a duty limit of 90% would give a theoretical power fuel limit between 350-380 RWHP, should be enough for 99 twins at 1 bar and stock ports.

Speed of light

iTrader: (8)

Dudemaaan, interesting that the 550's responded well to the increase in base pressure. Did you play with the dead times at all? I would expect the increase in pressure to increase the injector lag significantly. Also, in playing with those denso injectors, I have increased the voltage to them to improve their responsiveness, with good results.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

I just used the lag times that were recommended for those injectors in the power fc. I never adjusted it for the higher base pressure. I had to retune the whole base map, but was basically just a matter of removing fuel across the board. I was worried it would run too rich, kind of like adding 850cc secondaries to the primary rail. I thought i might have to run negative lag to compensate, but I was able to get a lean idle of 13.5 again and the low speed conditions seemed not only peppier, but I was able to lean it out a little more without hiccups or bucking. I assume the higher base pressure made a better atomization/spay pattern.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Logic and gain per cost are the reasons.

Would you pay the same price for an ugly prostitute when for the same price you could get the prettiest and best?
DAPDAQ

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

We run Bosch EV 14 injectors in 755/2000cc sizes for most single turbo setups. For really high hp cars (600+) I'll run 1000cc primaries. With the EV14s tuning a good idle and transition is not an issue. I refuse to install the bored out 1300s anymore. I've had 3 sets fail this year alone. I won't install the old bosch EV1s either. its just old technology and in the end you get a much better running car with the new stuff and a happier customer.

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

Any issue with having a huge jump from primary to secondary injector sizes?

Jason

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Not at all. The id/ev14s stage much more smoothly.

Lock & Load

Currently upgrading to knightsport 420 PS twins hoping to get around 360 HP with bigger secondary injectors and larger fuel pump , whats the best secondary injector size to upgrade to ? can 2000 inkectors be tuned down and run smoothly ?

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

Are you talking ID 1300's?
Those are supposed to be manufactured by Bosch for ID and according to ID going forward they will develop more injectors with Bosch especially designed for ethanl application

they advertise that their 1300's are the first injector specifically engineered for ethanol.

Im not a ID nut hugger but i dont think you were using their 1300s if you have seen so many failures.
As a consumer I would never run a drilled injector

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

I don't think he was talking about the ID1300, I believe he was talking about the bored out 1300, The id 1300 have stainless steel internals, they should do the same yo the 2000.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

BTW I run 2000 primaries and 1680 secondaries, been thinking about taking the 1680's out and putting the new 1300s in their place. I also switch between E85 and e10