Why haven't you done the "fan mod"?
#78
good information
I really hate my fan mod though. I have 2 switches for it, which is really annoying. I really don't know how it works. It's just too much to think about. If my fan mod was just 1 switch that turns it off and on, I'd be happy. Can someone explain to me the basics of this mod.
I really hate my fan mod though. I have 2 switches for it, which is really annoying. I really don't know how it works. It's just too much to think about. If my fan mod was just 1 switch that turns it off and on, I'd be happy. Can someone explain to me the basics of this mod.
#79
Blow up or win
Originally posted by negative
good information
I really hate my fan mod though. I have 2 switches for it, which is really annoying. I really don't know how it works. It's just too much to think about. If my fan mod was just 1 switch that turns it off and on, I'd be happy. Can someone explain to me the basics of this mod.
good information
I really hate my fan mod though. I have 2 switches for it, which is really annoying. I really don't know how it works. It's just too much to think about. If my fan mod was just 1 switch that turns it off and on, I'd be happy. Can someone explain to me the basics of this mod.
1. The Cirian mod (in it's time) was useful. Outdated
now, but useful.
2. If you have the ability to control your temps with
the PFC, great.
3. If you want the best solution, the cheapest,
easiest, no brainer - Miata Thermoswitch,
Miata Thermoswitch, Miata Thermoswitch.
It WORKS, period. For $35.00 and a half hour of sweat, it is phenomenal insurance.
Your engine will thank you many years from now for being so thoughtful. So will your bank account.
#82
Originally posted by RonKMiller
Amazing how things run full circle, here's the bottom line:
1. The Cirian mod (in it's time) was useful. Outdated
now, but useful.
2. If you have the ability to control your temps with
the PFC, great.
3. If you want the best solution, the cheapest,
easiest, no brainer - Miata Thermoswitch,
Miata Thermoswitch, Miata Thermoswitch.
Amazing how things run full circle, here's the bottom line:
1. The Cirian mod (in it's time) was useful. Outdated
now, but useful.
2. If you have the ability to control your temps with
the PFC, great.
3. If you want the best solution, the cheapest,
easiest, no brainer - Miata Thermoswitch,
Miata Thermoswitch, Miata Thermoswitch.
2. Most of us don't have a PFC
3. If you really need a no brainer, you are driving the wrong car.
4. I sure didn't expect to see this again.
Last edited by adam c; 08-18-03 at 11:19 PM.
#83
Originally posted by RonKMiller
Amazing how things run full circle, here's the bottom line:
1. The Cirian mod (in it's time) was useful. Outdated
now, but useful.
2. If you have the ability to control your temps with
the PFC, great.
3. If you want the best solution, the cheapest,
easiest, no brainer - Miata Thermoswitch,
Miata Thermoswitch, Miata Thermoswitch.
It WORKS, period. For $35.00 and a half hour of sweat, it is phenomenal insurance.
Your engine will thank you many years from now for being so thoughtful. So will your bank account.
Amazing how things run full circle, here's the bottom line:
1. The Cirian mod (in it's time) was useful. Outdated
now, but useful.
2. If you have the ability to control your temps with
the PFC, great.
3. If you want the best solution, the cheapest,
easiest, no brainer - Miata Thermoswitch,
Miata Thermoswitch, Miata Thermoswitch.
It WORKS, period. For $35.00 and a half hour of sweat, it is phenomenal insurance.
Your engine will thank you many years from now for being so thoughtful. So will your bank account.
#84
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Originally posted by DamonB
Coolant will expand when it's hot and contract as it cools, but it's not going to circulate inside the system on it's own accord between the hotter and cooler portions.
Coolant will expand when it's hot and contract as it cools, but it's not going to circulate inside the system on it's own accord between the hotter and cooler portions.
this turns out not to be the case.
nuclear submarines use exactly this system to circulate the cooling water through the reactor.
they no longer USE water pumps to circulate the water, just the temperature /density differential.
as in, with a properly designed system thermal convection will cool a nuclear reactor.
{at least that is what they taught me in Heat Transfer and Fluid Flow class in nuclear power school }
in our cooling system there is only the thermostat that will prevent flow, when the pump is not turning water will flow freely between the vanes on the impeller.
so there WILL be flow from the hot engine to, and through, the cooler radiator when the engine is not running.
running an electric fan after shutdown will absolutely cool the engine down more rapidly.
the guy with the spark plug sensors - do a time/temperature curve on the rate of temperature change after shutdown with and without fan running.
I'll bet a nickel that both curves will look pretty similar for the first couple to few minutes, and then the fan curve will start getting steeper and steeper until it levels off when the thermostat shuts.
#85
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I tried many times to find that wire to do the mod
but i was unable to find it
maybe our european Fds do no have it!
so i did the relais fan mod
any website to find more infos for the Miata thermoswitch mod?
but i was unable to find it
maybe our european Fds do no have it!
so i did the relais fan mod
any website to find more infos for the Miata thermoswitch mod?
#87
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by honegod
this turns out not to be the case.
nuclear submarines use exactly this system to circulate the cooling water through the reactor.
they no longer USE water pumps to circulate the water, just the temperature /density differential.
this turns out not to be the case.
nuclear submarines use exactly this system to circulate the cooling water through the reactor.
they no longer USE water pumps to circulate the water, just the temperature /density differential.
Cool water being denser will move to the lowest point, right? You know where the lowest point on an FD is? The nearly horizontal radiator. So all your cool water will sit in the radiator and not get to the engine. If the convection flow is so great inside the FD, why do we need a water pump? (and the FD isn't the only car I can think of with a pump; I think approximately all of them have a water pump ( except the Model T as was pointed out at one time, but that isn't apples to apples either. )
Now there is one VERY easy ways to prove that there is no convection coolant flow in the FD. First leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. Then don't leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. If convection flow is occuring the temp will drop much quicker with the fans running (it doesn't).
#88
Yes it is for sale.
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I did the Miata thermo switch mod and I have had no ill effects. My fans cycle on and all here in the Houston heat (yes, its still warm here). I did it for piece of mind.
Israel, you still don't have your car up and running yet? Arn't you going on two years of down time?
Israel, you still don't have your car up and running yet? Arn't you going on two years of down time?
#90
Slower Traffic Keep Right
iTrader: (5)
Originally posted by DamonB
Now there is one VERY easy ways to prove that there is no convection coolant flow in the FD. First leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. Then don't leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. If convection flow is occuring the temp will drop much quicker with the fans running (it doesn't).
Now there is one VERY easy ways to prove that there is no convection coolant flow in the FD. First leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. Then don't leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. If convection flow is occuring the temp will drop much quicker with the fans running (it doesn't).
Fans on=cooler engine bay/coolant=cooler temps
Makes perfect sense to me
Also, just because the thermostat is in the way on the top side, doesn't mean that coolant doesn't move, or at least transfer heat through the bottom hose.
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Last edited by ISUposs; 11-03-03 at 10:40 AM.
#91
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by ISUposs
Fans off=heatsoak=rising temps
Fans on=cooler engine bay/coolant=cooler temps
Not trying to insult you intelligence, but I don't get why that doesn't make sense?
Also, just because the thermostat is in the way on the top side, doesn't mean that coolant doesn't move, or at least transfer heat through the bottom hose.
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Fans off=heatsoak=rising temps
Fans on=cooler engine bay/coolant=cooler temps
Not trying to insult you intelligence, but I don't get why that doesn't make sense?
Also, just because the thermostat is in the way on the top side, doesn't mean that coolant doesn't move, or at least transfer heat through the bottom hose.
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Where's the temp probe for the gauge installed? If it's not in the block or the throttle body coolant line you're not reading engine block temps; any other location is in front of the thermostat.
Last edited by DamonB; 11-03-03 at 10:49 AM.
#93
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The Canadian cars did not get the coolant module under a warranty program. The dealers want $50 or so for it. My car does not have it. I don't intend to get it. Coolant boiling after shutdown is not "fixed" by this mod. It is a symptom of a "vacuum" leak at a coolant cap. I fixed that problem when I first got my car 5 years ago by replacing both caps and the small hoses that go to and from the AST. I may get the Miata thermoswitch, but here in Canada I haven't noticed any temp. problems. I suspect the European cars are in the same boat as ours.
I suppose not seeing 90 F days have something to do with it ;-).
I suppose not seeing 90 F days have something to do with it ;-).
#94
Originally posted by honegod
nuclear submarines use exactly this system to circulate the cooling water through the reactor.
they no longer USE water pumps to circulate the water, just the temperature /density differential.
nuclear submarines use exactly this system to circulate the cooling water through the reactor.
they no longer USE water pumps to circulate the water, just the temperature /density differential.
#95
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Originally posted by DamonB
You are comparing apples to oranges. Nuclear reactors are DESIGNED to work that way.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Nuclear reactors are DESIGNED to work that way.
Cool water being denser will move to the lowest point, right? You know where the lowest point on an FD is? The nearly horizontal radiator. So all your cool water will sit in the radiator and not get to the engine.
so any up angle of the radiator will be ABOVE the lowest part of the engine.
that is the working head for the water.
yes, it is not much head. so yes there will not be a LOT of waterflow, but there will be some.
the ONLY way there would be NO waterflow would be for EVERY BIT of the radiator to be BELOW every bit of the engine. this is not the case, yes ?
If the convection flow is so great inside the FD, why do we need a water pump? (and the FD isn't the only car I can think of with a pump; I think approximately all of them have a water pump ( except the Model T as was pointed out at one time, but that isn't apples to apples either. )
but we are not talking about the running engine, we are talking about a NOT running engine, where all the heat energy that we wish to remove is already present.
a finite quantity.
so the rate of flow through the system is not only removing heat from the whole system but it is DISTRIBUTING that heat energy throughout the engine.
so the hottest areas of the engine will transfer their heat to the cooler areas OF THE ENGINE.
this redistribution of heat energy internally will not show up on a temperature guage unless you are specifically looking for it with sensors placed where the difference will be .
the point is that this increased redistribution of heat will ONLY take place if the water is circulating, and the faster the water moves the quicker the engine temperatures will equalise.
having a fan cooling the radiator will result in some water circulation through the engine.
Now there is one VERY easy ways to prove that there is no convection coolant flow in the FD. First leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. Then don't leave the fans running and watch the temp gauge. If convection flow is occuring the temp will drop much quicker with the fans running (it doesn't).
this is unlikely to be the case.
what your guage will read is only the temperature of THAT specific area of the engine.
so the point you measure might well stay at 195° while that bit over there drops from 250° down to 195° ten times as fast
I could devise a series of temperature probes that would give meaningful readings on system temperatures and the rate of energy change in the system, but I would need to get PAID because it would be laborious and somewhat expensive.
#97
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally posted by adam c
Honegod is right. If you drive the FD under water, you don't need a water pump
Honegod is right. If you drive the FD under water, you don't need a water pump
This thread has been resurrected for the sole purpose of mental masturbation....
#99
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by honegod
the bottom of the radiator is pretty much level with the bottom of the engine, yes ?
the bottom of the radiator is pretty much level with the bottom of the engine, yes ?
Originally posted by honegod
that experiment is flawed. it assumes that the point where the temperature is measured at will reflect the OVERALL heat energy state of the entire engine and cooling system.
that experiment is flawed. it assumes that the point where the temperature is measured at will reflect the OVERALL heat energy state of the entire engine and cooling system.
#100
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Originally posted by DamonB
You go climb under the car and figure out how much that is. It ain't much.
You go climb under the car and figure out how much that is. It ain't much.
the point is that the radiator is NOT lower than the engine, and in fact much of the radiator is ABOVE the lowest part of the engine.
that gives us the heigth difference we need for convection to take place.
not much, ok, but SOME !
and that is the point, that SOME additional cooling will happen through thermal convection.
So you claim that we are unable to measure the coolant temps inside the engine
I said we can measure all kinds of temperatures inside our engine, I questioned the RELEVANCE of these particular measurements to the question of whether or not thermal convection was increasing the rate of heat removal from the engine.
and provided an example.
and then along with that supposition decide that convection is happening at a rate that cools the motor even after shutdown? That is absolutely flawed.
that running a fan to increase the temperature differential between engine and radiator will increase the rate of fluid flow through the system is also simple physics.
the rate at which this cooling is taking place is a whole 'nother thing, requiring several measurements taken at several places to provide the data points with which to fill in the energy transfer curve.
the rough overall shape of which curve I previously estimated.
I have made no claim of mystical knowlege, just the ability to see physics when it happens in front of me.