You are right, you don't know a thing. And everything you mentioned up there does nothing for you. Its all bull, its marketing. Its all more gear for you to buy and put on the car and it does absolutely nothing for you.

Perhaps you spent the money, like everyone else here, and just can't admit this whole thing is a joke. Its one big joke and you were simply suckered. That's all there is to it.

The Efini pipe does nothing for you except perhaps solve an inherent laziness to tighted the clamp every once in a while. The intake pipes are just fine. There is nothing wrong with the stock plastic ones. The shiney ones look pretty, that's all. There is nothing wrong with wanting shiney girlie stuff. But don't lie to yourself and say it makes power.

Port matching is a waste of time and money. There is nothing wrong with the ports from Mazda. You will not gain any time around VIR because you have port matched your intake, it won't matter when you sell your car that the ports are matched, so what, big deal, it simply means you paid for something you will not use. Its a big joke. This whole thing is one big joke. I am sure you know it, but simply can't admit it.

Jim makes (or made) real bushings, a real product. You put them on, there is a difference. Does it make you faster around the track? I don't know? Maybe for some it makes their car more predicable, but to others with perfectly fine stock bushings they make zero difference. Doesn't matter when you're out on a date and you lean over and in your best Barry White voice whisper "hey baby, you know this car has Jim's bushings", other than your date running out at the next intersection, they do nothing for you if you're not using them. Whatever.....in the end it all doesn't matter, if you like them that it. That's all that matters.

Don't fall for the marketing. If you like something just buy it just 'cause. But don't try to rationalize it to yourself by saying it does something functional when it doesn't. If it makes you happy, that's plenty.

cheers

W.

 

Wael,

I'd disagree about the y pipe flow characteristics in comparison to te stock unit. I think it has been proven to flow better, by Mazda and also the fact most people were making more boost with no other change to the car. Also if M2 tests and reworks the S bend in the IC piping because it flowed better, then wouldn't the y pipe also flow better with the BOV not sitting in the path of air flow. Looking through the 2nd turbo toward the BOV on the stocker and the e-fini, one can plainly see which one "should" flow better. I agree, my wife didn't care when I leaned over and told her about it either

Tim

 

well before you go ripping stuff off. you first have to see it it need replaced. you can just toss on a bigger hard pipe but it migth not be all that much better. go read all the things on negative boost in the link below. read all of then. if you dont you migth not get it. it is very good info.
wael:you said nothing is wrong with the stock intake pipes. how do you know this? did you test the pipes like they did in the link i provided? if you didnt' you can't just go say nothign is wrong with them if you have no proof. they have to be tested to really know.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0629/article.html
joel

 

Some things make real difference.
-downpipe
- most catbacks
- intake (filter or airbox)
- increasing boost / ECU
- Any intercooler from PFS on up (doesn't matter which)

The rest don't do much.

As far as the intake hardpipes. If I take the ones off my car and put the stock ones back on, I will not lose any power on the dyno. I will not lose any time around the track. I believe they look better, that's it. The Efini pipe, slighty better response, you're not going to get any real power at the same boost. If they increase the boost, which is what happened when I installed it, then they simply made no power. If you use a boost controlled and take out the 0.5psi they increased you'll make the same power as before.

I used to rationalize all this before and I honestly tell you it all doesn't matter. In the end the difference between a PFS car running 15psi putting down 350 RWHP and any other car with Power FC, Apex-i front mount, efini pipe, M2 airbox....blah blah... all that mounts to what? 20hp? If that. Its nothing, it all doesn't matter once you do the basics. The rest is marketing, diminishing returns proves it.

Talk to any reputable shop. Ask them which twins are better. If they can make a buck, they will. That's all that matters. I ask KD and Dave tells me it doesn't matter. And I know that answer was the first time he was absolutely honest with me. I asked him several such questions in the past and each time I get a different answer. Sometimes my friends ask him the same questions I ask him on the same day, and he gives them a different answer. I believe there are people that want to hear what they want to hear. Finally the last time, he answered me honestly and told me what I discovered for myself some time ago, that it all doesn't matter.

There is no real difference. Stock turbos, or 99, or BNR, or M2, its all the same. Maximum difference between them is not much. Nothing that substantiates the extra effort, or agony involved and the often high failure rate of the modified turbos. If you like the stocks, buy that, if you think the 99 is a step forward, buy that. But there is simply not enough difference between all of them that marks one over the other.

My outlook has changed completely and I honestly can tell you, it all doesn't matter. If your car puts anywhere around 330-360RWHP at 15psi on whatever configuration of twins, and it runs well, leave it alone. Nothing you do to the twin turbo will make any appreciable difference, its just marketing. If it runs well, leave it alone. Anything you do additional is purely for your own reasons, not to make any more power. Nothing wrong with liking polished aluminum pipes. I certainly want my car to look good.

cheers

W.

 

"There is no real difference. Stock turbos, or 99, or BNR, or M2, its all the same. Maximum difference between them is not much. Nothing that substantiates the extra effort, or agony involved and the often high failure rate of the modified turbos. If you like the stocks, buy that, if you think the 99 is a step forward, buy that. But there is simply not enough difference between all of them that marks one over the other.

My outlook has changed completely and I honestly can tell you, it all doesn't matter. If your car puts anywhere around 330-360RWHP at 15psi on whatever configuration of twins, and it runs well, leave it alone. Nothing you do to the twin turbo will make any appreciable difference, its just marketing. If it runs well, leave it alone. Anything you do additional is purely for your own reasons, not to make any more power. Nothing wrong with liking polished aluminum pipes. I certainly want my car to look good. "

I don't think so.

Any flow improvement AFTER the IC is prime candidate for addressing. That includes port-matching, extrude-honing, TBs, yadda, yadda. Or do you like pressure drop and putting an efficient turbo closer into non-efficiency because you now have to work it harder to get the same level of CFM you originally desired?

As you stated originally:

"If they increase the boost, which is what happened when I installed it, then they simply made no power. If you use a boost controlled and take out the 0.5psi they increased you'll make the same power as before. "

Just because you see 15 psi at your intake manifold does not mean that your turbos are working efficiently to produce that 15 psi. That y-pipe you replaced, which you saw +0.5 psi (and better response), was a flow improvement.

Well I guess I better go put my stock flywheel back on, obviously pointless since it's all the same in the end, right?

It sounds as if you are disillusioned with the whole RX-7/cars thing, Wael.. Is that the case? Yes, there is a ton of marketing BS out there that people buy into, however that doesn't mean that every part which doesn't show immediate difference is useless.

For instance, some people may think Jim's bushings are pointless - I would say those people are full of it and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that harder material translates into less displacement of said material upon application of force.

 

Ummm....

 

RonK,

I know you have various degrees in important things, have anything to add?

Are we now going to hear how turbos are actually producing the same psi/cfm that you actually see at the manifold?

 

Are you running for best dramatic actress in a supporting role?

 

Yes. You'll be showing up for the 2004 awards assembly in your V8 FD right?

 

Wael...Are you serious?

Any thing that will move more air in to your engine, out of your engine, or otherwise improve the efficiency will result in more horsepower. (obviously, while maintaining proper and consistent A/f ratios.) It's simple science.

For example, You brought up the Efini Y-pipe. Sure you are only losing 0.5 psi through the old one versus the new one, but you fail to realize that it does take power to produce that extra pressure. Granted 1/2 psi wouldn't amount to anything above 5hp, but there is a difference. I haven't tested the Efini Y-pip so I have no clue how much better it flows, but just by looking at it you can tell, it's a better flowing, higher quality piece.

I will agree however that there is alot of name brand hype, but you have that everywhere in everything.

 

Lotta B.S. floating around this thread.......

 

Probably, and even you should be able to figure out the benefit of 650+ horsepower on pump gas from an engine that isn't stressed to its limits and doesn't make all of its power in a 2,000 rpm band...

 

You can say that again. The people who think it sounds like it's worth the effort to replace are probably the same people who can tell "just by looking" that it's a restriction to flow...

 

I can only stand by what I did. I voted with my Dollars and Yens and can tell you that beyond the basic bolt on stages, the rest is simply not worth it if the agenda is more power, including freeing up the path of the charged air. If you like the looks of the new parts that's fine, nothing wrong with that, but every little improvement or slightly better flow of this or that, amounts to nothing appreciable and its a big joke.

A complete PFS car will put down 350 RWHP at the dyno, it did that since 1994 or so. Where exactly is the advancement since then?

We can sit here mixing and matching, tuning this, freeing up the air path, bigger intercoolers, better airboxes...whatever and in the end what will we gain, 10hp? 20hp? it took 10 years to get a max of 20hp? And even that number is questionable.

I haven't been to a dyno shop that didn't snicker at me and ask what would I like the dyno numbers to read? Because they know the reality is its all bull, whether its 340-370 RWHP. I use to think all this was very accurate because it was "dyno proven" but the truth is, its just about shops and money, that's all, so you get to live this wonderful fantasy.

I am not disillusioned at all. I accept the reality and I am happy with it and continue to spend money on my car, I enjoy it. I accept this all as just fun and not very serious anymore. It all doesn't matter in the end, but everyone can do what they want with their money. I like to think of it now as money spent on entertainment. Its no different than paying for a cruise, you pay for the experience, enjoy your time and that's it.

So if your car runs well, and you've already done the M2 stage 3 or PFS whatever to get you to 340-370RWHP, then trust me, leave it alone because the rest is just bull.

cheers

W

 

Keep in mind the difference between psi and cfm. It's very easy to make high pressures inside a restricted tube (try blowing through a straw you pinched shut). What counts for engine performance isn't the air PRESSURE but the air VOLUME. You can easily get more air volume (and thus horsepower) without increasing manifold pressure. Witness most single turbo installations.....

 

This thread now closed. There was some good stuff until people started bickering. Please play nice.