rt turbo

Ive search, and found nothing actually stating why the fds flood. i think mine is flooded now, which is the first time since i bought it. from what ive seen, possible coolant seal leak if its coolant in the plugs not letting it fire sometimes are cuplrits... the other most common cause being fuel. but why does the fuel do this, fuel injected piston motors dont flood??? maybe leaky injectors? but it seems alot of people get it with properly running injectors. i also want to know specific symptoms. gas smell on the plugs? not starting of course, properly turning motor just no fireing.

im thinking maybe not hot enough spark on cold startup might not fire the mixture quick enough and fuel gets into the plugs? or possibly slightly fouled plugs not giving enough spark quick enough on startup to ignite and the plugs flood? is this correct assumptions? any more info?

BobfisH

It can be leaky injectors that cause it. The other problem is simply because FD's run so pig rich!!

Symptoms can vary, if your losing coolant though thats a bad sign to a coolant seal failure. How many miles on the motor?

Open the larger fuse box attatched to the inner wing, should be right by the strut brace. There will be a largish relay in there (about 1 inch by one inch) Wiggle this around and pull at it until it pops out. Now crank your motor for 30 seconds to 1 minute with the accelerator flat to the floor. Reinstall relay and it *should* start if its a flooded motor.

rt turbo

im not loosing any coolant. mine seems to be fuel... i was mearly stateing that ive seent that as a possible cause. my motor has about 6 k miles, all atkins race seals (2mm apex) side seals, etc. before it would not start i pull >400 inhg @ 980rpm idle. Also, when i pulled the plugs last night after trying to jump the car (which had no effect on turningover) the plugs reaked of fuel.

BobfisH

Pull that relay and crank that fuel outta the motor then mate, should see you good.

rt turbo

dont you pull the plugs for this too? i am going to try this tonight.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

The only time I have ever flooded my FD is when I tried to start it on a almost-dead battery.

With my current aggresive streetport with excessive overlap, I see maybe -330 mm Hg at 1000 rpms, quite low compared to stock ports and idle. Never had a problem with this engine flooding.

BobfisH

It is recommended to pull the plugs, but i never ever do. It takes 20 minutes and tools to pull the plugs. And 1 minute and *maybe* the pliers from the factory toolkit to pull the relay, and its always worked for me.

Do the math!

P.s - my engine never floods after having the injectors cleaned either.

P.p.s goodfella - your cars on aftermarket management isnt it? Probably not dumping the buttload of fuel in at idle that the stock ECU does.

BobfisH

Also - on the relay that you pull there is a catch that holds it in place. I purposely snapped mine off to make it easier to remove (youll see what i mean when you go to remove it ) and havent had any problems since snapping that catch. IF your car constantly floods it might be worth doing.

dhcernese

because normally they don't. not anywhere near like the 2nd gens did!

JTurtonRX_7

Ive never flooded mine, even starting it than stoping it cold sometimes.

rt turbo

mine is aftermarket ecu, (power FC).

rt turbo

yeah, this is the first time mines done this... but i have heard of many fds doing this... and much more FCs. i think the battery was a bit low, but it did still turn... but it may have caused not enough amperage to provide a strong spark. it has an oddesy small battery, which does not provied near stock battery cold crank amps.

Nat6c

iTrader: (1)

well i guess since no one asnswered your question. I'll answer it. the reason flooding can, does, or always depending upon your intelligence happens is due to the rotaries inhibit design. for ex.

in the old days when you had a carburated engine. if it was cold and you over choked the motor, or tried to start it was too much you could flood the cylinders with fuel correct? or lets say you run pig rich and turned it off on cold engine. as we all know or should know, when a combuswtion engine is cold. it requires more fuel to start and run then a warmer/hot engine. with that in mine cold carburated engines we're easier to flood then warm/hot b/c of that nature. and carburators dump fuel as long as there's vacuum to it, in most cases. knowing this. a flooded piston engine has piston rings. good rings will not allow oil through. BUT fuel is much much thinner then oil. so a flooded motor, or motor with leftover fuel in the chambers can drain to the oil pan, evap and be taken out through crank case vending etc, (emissions section).

Now understanding that if you know how the rotary engine is designed inside. and knowing that it's a oval styled sealed chamber and solid. rotaries need more fuel then pistons to begin with , using the same concept as a cold piston engine. we need EVEN MORE fuel when cold. so if you cold start, and turn it off immediatly, you will have left over fuel. now lets say the face of roto facing staright up on intake "stroke" fuel can puddle on the crevice of rotor, there will be fuel on the combustion side face as well, the combustion side since its' technically facing vertical will draing to the bottom of rotor. some may, or all may drain through the apex seal, and sit at bottom of the rotor housing, remember it's a sealed chamber, and there's no drainage and if fuel is in the plugs, they sit almost perfectly horizontal so fuel can puddle there as well. given that. when you try to start a rotary again, more fuel is dumped on top of the fuel already in there. now you have double the fuel in the engien then needed causing a possible flood the bad part is in only gets worse because the more you turn the engine over. the more fuel it'll dumped in every "chamber" or face of the rotor, and you keep adding and adding and piling up the fuel. technicaly by common logic you'd think that it should just fill or pour out the exhaust port. some will, but not always enough to let it fire up b/c of the speed on the engine, plus the apex seals just drag all the fuel around and around and around. that's why mazda says pull the plugs and relay for fuel pump or egi, so not dump all the fuel into the exhaust. their theory states when the engine finally fires up all the raw fuel in exhaust will pre ignite and can destroy the cats. which is tru in some cases. seen it at the dealer here. the reason roatry plugs have the 4 slits is to allow the plug to be able to possibly drain the raw fuel left inside since the plug dosnt' sit at a 45 deg. angle or vertical light a piston engine would.

that's why it's takes a while to unflood even if you pull the pump or e.g.i. fuse because you gotta try to force all the fuel out into the exhaust. and a reason why just letting it since for a good while like you'd do with a piston engine does not work or rotary.

that's about a decent explanation i've been able to make while i'm workign on cars here at work. if you need mroe explanation hit me up.


Los

rt turbo

that makes alot of sence. thanks for that responce! im guessing its likely the reason my plugs reak of fuel when i pull them... because they normally dont smell like it.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Mine has only flooded once in 14 years and it was caused by user error.

"USER ERROR"

Lizo7

iTrader: (11)

Do you really have to pull a fuse to unflood an FD, what i mean is i know the fb and fc's up to 86 you had to but unless ive been misinformed for the S5's to cut off all fuel if it did flood all you had to do was put the pedal to the floor (mines never flooded), wouldnt they have done that with the fd as well?

jsplit

Bingo - I've had 3 rx-7s, 2-FD's, and rx-8 and heavily drove a friends rx-8 for a while and never ever flooded any one of them.

Nat6c

iTrader: (1)

the majority of floods are actually due to user error and/or low battery voltage not allowing sufficient rpm for the engine to fire up.

=-) Los

rt turbo

well, i think mine is user error too.. that and a combo of things. i know my fd coils are worn, i mean, on stock turbos i blow spark out at 11psi and above, also, my NGK 9's in the uppers are shot, and i left my door open, so i dont thing the battery was tip top. when i started it i think my hand let off the key a scotch causing a slight blip in the turn cycle. I got all new NGK 9s heat cycle yesterday, and tonight i finally have time to deflood this thing. i dont see it not working. Im going to pay much more attention to power up, and by a set of FC or blaster coils and install the jacobs ignition this weekend. bet it doesnt happen again. acutally, i have a few projects with it this weekend... deflooding, coils, ignition amp, new fuel filter. from the looks of it, most time will be spent on the filter

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Do "these cars" flood?

I've owned one since '98. and have never flooded.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Just a few tips:

with the jacobs amp, you'll only need an FC coil for the leading. For the wiring, you just cut off the leading connector and solder on a pair of ring connectors.

For the fuel filter, buy 3 feet of high pressure fuel injection hose and use them to extend the fuel lines from the hardlines and mount the filter with hose clamps on the subframe. It's tucked out of the way so safe from road debris, and your next fuel filter change will take about 5 minutes

rt turbo

yes, the filter relocation is a must! in found a thready where to locate it, and i think thats where you are saying. I just dont know how im giong to get my hands in there.

with the fc coil, should i relocate that too? ive seen many people have. but it doesnt seem that terrible to get in there.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

The fc leading coil won't fit in the factory spot under the UIM b/c the bracket gets in the way. You can either notch the bracket to make it fit, or you can mount it elsewhere. Mine is on a custom made bracket near the driver's side strut tower.

rousu

The word is that the engine computer is designed to sense when the throttle is on the floor, and if so, cuts the fuel feed during the start. It worked for me when my old engine would flood once in a while. Keep it cranking through all the coughing until it starts to get some revs, then back off and keep it running at 2500-3000 until it smooths out.

It's kind of cool to have the computer make it act like an old carburated critter for starting from a flooded condition.

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

The first time I pulled the plugs it took me ~5 minutes, why exactly does it take you 20? Now that i've done it a few times I can pull a set (or all four if I needed to I guess) in less than a minute, with ease. And the "tools" you need consist of a rachet and a spark plug socket, not really any specialized tools if you ask me . Most of the time you can get away with not pulling the plugs, but sometimes you need to, it's not that hard to do though.

[edit]
and before it gets said, I do NOT have small arms, or hands for that matter.