I'll take a bushing kit if Jason decides to stock them or 1RedR1and1RedPEP sell a set.

 

Sure, it's worth a shot.

Notice the two cars you mentioned have tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of units produced. The FD, on the other hand, is a very, very limited market, which is why Prothane, Suspension Techniques, Energy Suspension and others never bothered with it, and why I had to produce my bushings in the first place.

 

I would be interested as well.

T.W.

 

I'm interested also. Let us know the final price if and when it's determined. Thanks.

 

For those of you getting the bushings be aware that they do change the handling characteristics of the car.

1. Handling is much much sharper but it feels very twitchy; may be I haven't fully acclimated to it?

2. The original bushings were designed to provide toe changes as you're braking, turning and accelerating so that they fool you into thinking the car is slight oversteer when it's actually neutral. I didn't realize how forgiving the original bushings were until I put Jim bushing on.

3. but the original bushings only forgive up to a certain point and then it bites you in the ***. Jim's bushing provides very sharp response that's predictable. I had so much fun drifting the car in an industrial park b/c it's so predictable now.

As you can see, it's hard for me to explain except the car feels different handling wise as every motion of the steeting wheel is immediate. If your tire is unbalanced, you can feel where the imbalance is on the tire. Hell, I can feel pebbles on the road now.

As to NVH, well you do hear suspension noise making a whap whap noise more over bumps. May be it's b/c I'm running GC coil over 450F/300R with Koni yellows?

One other thing I've noted is that the car doesn't hop any more, at least when I dumped it at 4000 rpm.


On smooth roads, you can't tell that it's anything new. I don't hear more road noise, i.e., the constant humming of tire over road surface.

 

I had bushing kit installed on my FD. It was custom made by my shop. Will take pic of it once I have it on the lift again.

 

So, how much would your shop charge for another set? It seams to me that $500 would be more then fair for the shop. Even $400 a set for a prepaid order of five sets. As Jim stated above that the cars listed have a much wider market but what Jim failed to mention is that the bushing kits for those cars are only fraction of his cost for the same reason. Smaller shops with a lower overhead would be more likely to want to do shorter manufacturing runs.

 

Is that what you think it should cost or what you'd like to pay? The cost of materials and manufacturing determines the price, not the other way around...

 

This is not injected molds we are talking about. This material is bought in a standard size and cut down to the desired size. Machined inserts pressed into the center and you done. Would you post your receipt for the last batch? That would settle this cost question real quick Jim. Or is it suply and demand that dictates the price?

 

I would potentially be interested in a set...always depending on price

The way I see it, Jim should get a decent return for his investment/work, but should also make sure he is not overcharging clients due to his semi monopolistic position

 

And the way I see it, if you guys are going to question Jim's pricing versus his costs,...you are perfectly welcome to pick a set of calipers, measure the various suspension components, track down the raw materials, and get a machinist to do the work. From there, you can determine whether his costs are "reasonable" or not.

If you guys are not happy w/ his pricing,...produce some of your own. Instead of sitting there guessing what his costs may be.

 

Simplified in the extreme, yes. It's not a complicated process once the prototypes have been produced, if that's what you're driving at, but it is extremely labor intensive. Seven different bushing sizes (for the FD) each require multiple setup and machining steps and tolerance checks. Because the machining process is only semi-automated, there is a lot of time and effort involved in whittling those materials down to the "desired size". 18 bushing bodies and 18 center pins per kit adds up quickly. If you think it's so easy... make your own.

Jeez, and here I thought that ~1/3 of the cost of Mazdaspeed's rubber replacements was pretty fair. Maybe someone should collar C-West about their sleek light kit and ask them why a few pieces of fiberglass, a couple pieces of Lexan, and two sets of CATZ driving lights should cost $1,100+. Why not ask RE Amemiya why their genuine front bumpers can run over $2,000. After all, it's just putting some fiberglass in a mold and popping it out, right?

Free enterprise... buy it or don't. There is no monopoly here. You're more than welcome to spend $1,500+ on a full set of Mazdaspeed 40% stiffer rubber bushings if you want, Pettit Racing sells a drag launch bushing and trailing arm kit for the rear of the car (that costs almost as much as my entire kit... why don't you ask them about that?), and of course there are always Mazda OEM replacements which aren't cheap either.

Of course I can just eliminate all the confusion and controversy by not having any more made. I don't care either way. Would that make you all happy?

 

Call Mazda and get a quote for all 18 stock rubber bushings.

 

These threads always get a life of their own. Someone delete this thread.


Look, I just wanted some new bushings. I don' t care what they cost or how much the seller is making on his profit. It's free enterprise. If I feel the price is too high, I just won' t buy them. It's my choice. It seems like only choice I have is go stock or make my own. Thanks everyone for the input. And please, stick to the subject.

 

Never once did I ever suggest that Jim is not entitled to make a profit for his time and investment. If Jim wants to play games that his kit is not for sale anymore then, change his mind when demand rises so he can increase his prices or sell enough sets to be worth his while. That’s up to him. Please remember this post started because they were no longer available! The pricing I discussed above was for a shop that had already made a complete set for fd3s777's car. Therefore the research and devotement was already done. Not to question Jims prices. Then it was Jim who commented on my post:
"Is that what you think it should cost or what you'd like to pay? The cost of materials and manufacturing determines the price, not the other way around..."
It was Jim who brought up the subject of his cost of materials and manufacturing setting the price for his kit. That is what I questioned! I said it once and I will say it again. Is it supply and demand that dictates the price? I thought so then and I believe it to be true now. Is that such a bad thing? This is the US of A built on a free market. Knowing that there is not the expense of Machining molds, but in turning down a material that’s softer/easer then machining aluminum? But, there are 18 bushings and inserts for each one. Jim has the right to charge what ever he chooses. Yes, I feel like Jim has made a profit through the group buys and selling his kit through N-Tech. First when he suggests that the price will go up for a product on a car that all other prices are coming down, yah it frustrates me. That’s why I was trying to generate another avenue for purchasing our bushing kits from. This car is not going up in value but coming down. As much as I love my RX-7 it’s not a Ferrari. The price of a good aluminum radiator for our cars used to be $500 to $600. Now you can get one shipped for $350. Jim’s price is one third of Mazdaspeed's rubber replacements but those items can be purchased one at a time or as a complete set. The point of all this is if I don’t like what Jim is charging for his kit then I don’t have to buy it anymore then If he doesn’t like what I post to another member he doesn’t have to respond to it. However, if he does respond to my post to another member then it is only fair that what Jim brings up is then open for discussion or to question. My question is would you post your receipt for the last batch Jim?

Steve

 

If you want to see jimlab's costs,...PM him w/ your request in private. There is no need to publicly have a vendor's costs posted for the world to see (similiar to a public lynching...)

Mods, please lock this thread, as it is now utterly off-topic and useless.

 

Ah, now I understand why you're so interested in my costs and why you mentioned supply and demand. You think that I fabricated the increase in cost just to make more money and claimed the last group buy was the last just to increase demand. Maybe that's the way you think, but I don't. In fact, it took until now for me to even realize what you were getting at because the thought would never have crossed my mind.

Trust me, if the machinist hadn't said the price was going to increase, the price would still be the same. The price structure has been the same for the last 2+ years. As far as the last group buy being the last, I wanted it to be the last. I'm tired of dealing with the bushings, and I didn't even want to do that one. The only way I'd ever do another is if the orders literally fell into my lap. It's not worth the hassle to me to pull another one together.

Were you aware that the first run of bushings were even more expensive? In fact, the people who bought the first run of bushings paid about $200 more for their kits because the machinist I used at the time was more expensive, and because my partner and I purchased the materials ourselves at retail and didn't get the discount that a shop that deals in large volumes can. After establishing that people would pay that price, why would I bother to find a cheaper source for manufacturing and materials and then pass the savings on to the buyer if all I was interested in was maximum profit? And subsequently, how happy do you think those people were when the price dropped? You can't please everyone, obviously.

Would it surprise you that the engine cradle I just shipped to a customer in Alaska was subsidized to a large extent by me because I quoted him what I was quoted by the fabricator, and when cost exceeded that, I wasn't willing to go back on my word? In fact, I just paid another $300+ to have his cradle widened because the OEM cradle I bought from someone else on which it was based was too narrow. Would you like to see the receipt for that? I figure I have about as much into his cradle as he does.

Would it surprise you that I just gave away my nearly new drill press to a local RX-7 enthusiast when I bought my milling machine? Would it surprise you that I've often given away parts to local people? Does that sound like someone interested in ripping everyone off? No, all it took was you assuming I was out to make a few more bucks off of you for you to slander my integrity.

Because that's precisely how my pricing is structured. I have a spreadsheet of the quoted labor cost per bushing in specific volumes, and they're added up to calculate the cost, including materials, shipping, and my end, for each kit, in specific volumes. The discount for volume goes directly to the buyer, and my end stays the same regardless of the volume.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Easier to machine than aluminum? You know very little about machining plastics, then. Turn the material too fast and it melts and gums up the cutting tools, or expands and you remove too much material. When you're trying to maintain tolerances of a few thousandths of an inch, it's not easier than machining aluminum. Like I said before, if you believe it's so easy, make your own set.

No, and nor would any other vendor, nor would they likely be kind enough to explain to you why their products cost what they do. This conversation is over, and I'll make things very simple for you by eliminating the dilemma over whether or not to buy a set of my bushings by never selling you one.

 

Hey, Jim: Don't let this discussion stop you from making the bushings. I am going to be in the market for some here in the future. If you do stop making them, is there a way to get the information to someone else that would make them for all of us that still need them? Maybe Jason or something? Just a thought. I didn't have the money to get in on the group buy, but will eventually have the money and need to get them done. Thanks.

 

Jim, I just want to apologize. I never meant to slander your integrity. I was only trying to have a little fun with a debate. There was never a mean intention. I have read your posts for some time with enjoyment. I thought you enjoyed debates because of the frequency and way you participate in them. My mistake again. I don't blame you for being mad at me. On the plus side it looks like Jason wants to carry your bushings. Please enjoy the holidays and have a marry Christmas.

Steve

 

Debating is perfectly fine, and I'm always more than happy to explain why the bushings cost what they do, and what the alternatives are. I've turned people away when I know that their budget is limited and I think they'd be better off spending their money on something more useful to them. I've over-nighted bushings to people at my cost who claimed their cars were waiting at shops and been burned. I've over-nighted bushings at my cost to vendors who sold only enough sets to cover the materials and stuck me with the machining costs. When customers have broken bushings, even though the instructions explicitly state how to install them correctly and that they're only covered for manufacturing defects, I've sent them replacements free of charge. Shortly after the first run of bushings went out, we found out that there was a possibility of binding in the rear suspension. I paid for shipping both ways and the machining costs for everyone who had already received their kits to upgrade their bushings. In other words, I've gone out of my way to look out for everyone's best interests but my own, it seems.

Therefore, when I feel that my honesty and integrity have been called into question, I get a little touchy. No hard feelings though.

 

Now there's someone who stands behind what they make. Thats what I like to see.

 

I've heard the FD has some nervous handling traits. I never notice this in my car probably just because my bushing are so crappy.

I thought I saw it mentioned somewhere mazda took care of these traits with the RZ bushings, or maybe all the 99+ models.

I'll be watching the progress of the possibility of another run, since I know I need to replace my bushings.

 

I think the FD is only nervous while braking over bumps

Depending on the type of bushings you need, Pettit has some for the diff. Maybe someone could ask Energy Suspension to make them or see if there's other compatible bushings. I assume this has been exhausted or it would be produced. Hell, they make bushings for MGA's and MGB's and I doubt there are that many that still exist in good condition.

Shame Mazda raised the prices on most of their parts... especially engine parts and seals. I know some rotary tuners were complaining about that. There needs to be a third party that makes gaskets and parts for the rotary to drive down the parts. Too bad that won't happen.

 

Jason if u get jims bushings for sale count me inn.

I need them before this summer

BTW Jason, do u send to norway?

 

Not gonna happen - I approached Energy Suspension and Prothane about this last year and the initial order would need to be 1200+ SETS - not to mention the setup and initial charges are exorbitant.


I am working out a group buy that gives you a choice of AutoEXE, Original Box, RE-Wing and Mazdaspeed Bushings. Be forewarned though, none of these will be cheap - all will be more expensive than Jims - and, to an extent, lesser performing than the urethane bushings. The RE-Wing kit is metal pillowballs! So if you thought urethane was stiff, don't even bother with those...


If whoevers interested in one of these different items wants to PM me, I could get an idea of the demand.