spoolin

i plan on buying a reman and pull it apart to port it. going to buy an apex intake...seems to be the better out there for the purpose( was going to get the M2, but read someone's post a while back about how they wasted their money..apexi it is..then custom fab a fiberglass something or other around it). going to run pettit ss dp, resonated mp, and already have the tanabe catback. i had a post about porting the wastegate to prevent boost creep, but the people didn't help. how to do it? also, upgrading the i/c...i want one that is a stock mount w/ minimal bracket making/modifications and that will use the stock upgraded ic piping from M2 or whoever anyone can suggest that has a good kit( thinking about pfs i/c and can't remember who had the aluminum hard pipes...anyone?). next is the injector issue..will i need to upgrade to 1200cc or can i run stock? who has the best (meaning for drivability, power and RELIABILITY) ecu upgrade for the mentioned mods (refresher: streetport, full exhaust, intake, upgraded intercooler, and efini y-pipe). i forgot about that...where can these be purchased? i'm not a tuner, i'm a spender. i can do somethings...porting and putting some of this **** on, but don't know anything about inj duty cycle, fuel delivery and lambda o2 stuff. i'll leave that to the experienced....that's why i'm asking for you guy's help. please help and make me feel secure in the amount of money i'm about to spend. or i'll sell it and just continue driving my 1st gen. keep in mind that i'm paying $400 a month for this driveway space taker-upper as the coolant seals took a dump a couple of months ago.

neo_omega

what kind of porting you want to do?????? Also you need a aftermarket ECU and fuel pump.

You can get most of stuff at http://www.rx7store.net/

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iTrader: (2)

Well I was in the same boat as you and I couldnt decide between the Apexi intake and the M2. it was decided for me. The Apex intake will not fit with many upgraded stock mount intercoolers. I went with the m2 intake as well as the m2 med intercooler for fitment purposes. I would have like to save some money on the Apex intake but it just didnt work out. Also there are a few Apex Power intakes. One is only Filters and does not come with the inj molded plastic. So be sure to find out which one you are buying if you decided to go Apex. I have the M2 Aluminum Intake and its very high quality. The air pump does not fit well with the m2 intercooler piping. If you have any other questions let me know.

spoolin

the apex i was referring to was the filter one. i didn't know they offerd one with a box-type filter. i've never seen it. as for the air pump, i don't know whether to remove it or not. what, if any benefits are there? do you have to use it or can you run safely w/out it? i took it off of my 10th ann when i had it. i only had the racing beat exhaust and fuel cutswitch though.

spoolin

all the people on this forum, not to mention the years and millions of dollars spent on r&d and no one has anything to say to help me out? come on guys....i really need help figuring this out. this car is far more complicated than just and exhaust and fuel cut switch to get decent, reliable performance out of like a 2nd gen. what have you done? what worked? what didn't? what did you have to do to make it work? what would've been easier the first time?

Lost Time

People had gotten so tired of answering the same questions day in and day out, that they started answering every question with "search". Now, everyone is so tired of answering the same question with search, that they just don't answer at all. That's why you haven't gotten many responses. Plus you asked for only experienced advice. Since most of the people here don't even have rx7's, and most probably even know less than you, they're not going to stick their necks out.

I'm usually the first to answer everyone's redundant questions no matter how many times someone has asked them. But you have asked many questions that have been answered many times. All the information you're requesting is here. There is, or was as of my post, 486,712 posts on this forum. Believe me, the answers are there. As much as I know and contribute here, I probably search for things 5 or 6 times a day. There is alot of very "experienced information" here just waiting.

If you still cannot find the info you want, and you can't find it at www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette or www.scuderciriani.com/rx7/index.html then ask again. But I would be very surprised if there is a question that you can't find an answer to either here or at one of those two sites.

Good luck.

Johnny

Porting the wastegate... If you a spender like you said..let someone do that for you

I'm partial to intake boxes..such as m2performace and rx7fashion's.Nothing against apexi..I just prefer box intakes...

As for IC the m2 medium might be a good choice for you..should come with intake pipes and greddy elbow.

Injector issue..you can always get the 850's enlarged to 1300's by RC engineering.. simple way to make these work would be with a aftermarket ECU such as Power FC. Not to mention a larger fuel pump..cosmo pump is a drop in, so that would be the easy. This will give you the added safety for running 12lbs +...I generally run about 80% duty cycle at .8 bar...and I'm still running stock 850's...so I feel somewhat safe for now.

As for o2 reading...cant trust OEM...must use wide lambda...for that..find a dyno near you that has one. Ideally stay in the area of 11.5-11.8 A/F ratio..

Hope that helped

spoolin

i appreciate it and have both those sights bookmarked...been there on several occasions. i've looked at the search function and like many others, come up with little to nothing. its hard to be on the money when describing something b/c if you're vague, nothing matches. basically, i want to do the mods and do it once- with NO problems: boostcreep, lean mixture, 3k rpm hesitation, blown motor and so on. my friends tell me to get a mustang. simple, plug and play horsepower. the rx-7 is by far a more unique automobile.,.like me (i mean i'm not a car, just like to be different than everyone else. but i DON'T want to be different in the aspect of "look at that guy over there, he has $20K in a car that sits in his driveway! hahahaha") i just don't want another bad experience with this 7 as i did with my 10th ann.--two motors, two turbos, and just when i thought everything was fine, it started overheating. i spent over $22K on that car(total) and sold it for $5,000. i saw it in the shop about 8 months after i sold it, and it was being fixed from the overheating problem....one of the intake o-rings was pinched when the mechanic at mazda put my motor in. i felt so stupid for selling that car. it looked better than a 3rd gen imo.

Lost Time

Let me give you my personal experiences with my car (the abbreviated version). I personally like the open cone-type intakes. I have the Pettit intake. Although I believe this is one of the most efficient intakes available it is a total rip-off. What you are paying $299 for is a piece of sheetmetal, essentially. The two K&N cones they give you are maybe $50. You use the pos stock rubber hoses and the BOV and CRV now vent to atmosphere (if you get the cheaper off-road version). So my advice here, is buy your own cones seperately and make your own heatshield.

I have Pettit's ss downpipe and resonated midpipe. Both great. Worth every penny. Great construction and the seem to flow well. I recommend both.

I have the fairly new HKS carbon fiber/titianium tip exhaust. Again, very nice. SS piping, carbon fiber wrapped can and a ti tip. It has a nice deep sound. At the same time, any straight through can will flow about the same. The only difference being sound. Catback is up to your styling choice.

If you run a dp and midpipe and cb, you will see some boost creep. Some lucky few have not, but most will. To avoid this, you need to port the wastegate. Like Johnny said, you might want to bring it somewhere.

For fuel I am running the Apexi PFC. Very simple and it is a plug and play computer. If you don't want to adjust it yourself, you could probably live with the base maps indefinately. If you plan on running 12psi or more you need to upgrade the fuel pump (Walbro or Nippo are good choices) and the secondaries. If you can limit yourself to 12psi, you can go without the secondaries.

I hope some of this is helpful to you.

spoolin

this was it

spoolin

i hate this god damn thing "already posted that image here","file too big " bullshit you rx 7 forum! FRUSTRATION!!!!!!!

spoolin

for one thing, i'm selling my motorcycle to finance this fiasco. i will be on a limited budget. my friend owns a rotary repair shop here in town so i will have wholesale pricing on just about everything. the only thing, he doesn't have any experience with modding the 3rd gen. he streetported his son's and he is running full exhaust....with stock intake, ic, and ECU! i have told him countless times to get a computer, but he hasn't yet. i guess as with everything else, his attitude "oh well, dad will fix it/ rebuild it/ whatever". i don't understand him, he's never even picked up a wrench and worked on his own car. let alone build a motor. hell, i had to put his bov on for him! anyways, that's why i'm turning to the forum. i was in fort lauderdale a couple of years ago and met cam and talked to him for a while. i don't know if he is still there, but there was a guy named ira that was pretty nice and helpful, too. if i lived near there, i would be set. there is no one around here that has any expereience with a pfc and the person typing all this probably couldn't afford someone who could. that is why i want to go with a simple plug and drive type ecu.

rx7even

Here's my opinion on everything. For intakes, the Apex should work fine. It will be pulling in hot air unless you make some kind of shielding. My opinion is that the Pettit intake is the best as it allows fresh air to constantly flow over and past the filters instead of trapping it in. It may be expensive for what you get, but you're paying for the engineering of it, which is well worth the price.

Pettit SS DP and resonated MP are good choices as well. With this setup so far you will be experiencing boost creep sometime soon if not right away, but I see you're planning on porting your wastegate, so that should help. I'm also not sure that I'd port the wastegate yourself. If you're completely confident you can do it, go for it, if not, let someone do it who's done it before. Better peace of mind.

You're limiting your choices for intercooler if you want to keep your M2 stock IC pipes. I'm sure the Greddy or Blitz stock mount would work with those, but they're not THAT much larger than stock. You mentioned the PFS intercooler, but I can't remember how the pipes are set up on that so I can't be sure it would work. Don't forget, Pettit also has a similar small stock mount IC but with a better duct I believe (doesn't PFS' have the duct for the intake in it too?). I'm pretty sure the price on their webpage is wrong too (might be cheaper), might be worth a call. I know their cool charge 3 comes with the IC, the duct, piping, and elbow for like $1499.

With this setup, larger injectors shouldnt be required unless you plan to run really high boost, which I wouldn't recommend. I would recommend upgrading the fuel filter though. A Cosmo or Supra pump would be plenty.

For computers, the easiest choices would be a remapped stock ECU or a standalone like the PFC. A remapped ECU such as a Pettit will control the car just fine, but leave all the quirks of the stock ECU. I loved mine and miss it all the time. The PFC is redesigned from the ground up and eleminates all the stock ECU quirks. It can be tuned, but most people run on the stock maps without problem. Basically just a matter of opinion on what you want. My Pettit ECU seemed to possibly make a little more power than the PFC, but I also havent taken the time to put my car on the dyno since I got the PFC. They'll all pretty much have the same degree of reliability.

You mentioned the airpump too. You can pretty much just unplug it when you get the resonated MP, as it will just be pumping air under the car and will serve no real purpose. You could also get a pulley kit that eliminates the airpump and just take it out all together.

Hope this helps some.

spoolin

i ported my '85 gsl...swapped with a 13B and used my 12A side plates for 4 port configuration. i think it is fine. the local rotary guy was quite impressed...bigger and better than his port job. car ran .4 secs fster than the motor he built for me with EXACT same setup of carb, exhaust, ignition and so on. i think i'll be able to port the wastegate and my motor with no problem. as for everything else........

hapa

Spoolin, it sounds like you have an excellent grasp on modifiying an FD the RIGHT way. It's good to ask questions, but be wary of the information you get on the internet. Personally I'm running a power FC, k&n intake in stock box, downpipe, and Greddy exhaust. I would recommend that you tune your car to your tastes. What are you planning to do with the car? Autocross? Drag strip? Track race? Etc. Once you decide your intended purpose, buy the parts that will best match your setup.

If your going to keep your stock twins, and maybe later go single turbo, I would recommend the Power FC, it gives great performance, is configurable to almost any setup, and with the Datalogit out, it's a complete system. The AEM computer and Haltech are very nice as well, as far as I'm concerned you can't go wrong with any of these. Just make sure you pay to tune it right. Tuning is the key to any turbo motor.

I would buy your intake and your intercooler as a total package. Some will not fit together, so keep that in mind. Everyone has their own opinion on which intercooler to buy. The M2/ASP is a proven unit, but it's expensive. I haven't decided if I'm going to buy M2's, or fabricate my own. Crooked Willow used to make an excellent looking unit, but I don't know if they will be available ever again.

As far as injectors go, the stock FD's are fine with the stock turbos. I personally would never run the stock turbos over 15lbs, this exceeds their efficiency range. If you go single later you can have your secondaries enlarged or purchase larger injectors with fuel rails, and they can still be controlled by the Power FC. I would upgrade your fuel pump to a bigger unit, either the MKIV supra pump, or big bosch pump. The apexi pump looks real nice as well.

I personally know NOTHING about porting, I will leave that up to the pros. Let us know what you end up buying/installing. About the whole "search" thing, I don't mind answering questions that have already been asked, especially when there is good discussion about parts, tuners, etc. Just make sure that you research your question before you ask it. You already knew about the apexi intakes vs. M2, so I'm sure others don't mind those questions either.

eric

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iTrader: (2)

I have Zero Boost creep and I run a Downpipe, Midpipe, Catback, M2 intake, M2 med intercooler and the Apex PFC with 12 psi. I dont see why you would need to port the wastegate unless you run higher boost with the stock Intercooler. The Larger Intercoolers give some pressure drop due to the large Cores so there is no need to port the wastegate. I am about to do the Cosmo Fuel pump and enlarge the secondary injectors so I can run more boost. Right now I see 90% duty with just 12 psi. It pulls very hard but the stock fuel system is taxed. Also the pump must be the first mod to the fuel system after the ECU. Even the stock pump can lose pressure under high boost levels at higher RPMS. I believe a pump could make it safer to run 13 - 14 psi on the stock injectors for short bursts. The pump is much easier then doing injectors. Also note, Change out the fuel filter at the same time. If you have other questions about tuning I would be happy to answer them on AOL IM. My user name is "mik3ymomo"

spoolin

thank you for your input. i plan to get a smic that DOES not require me to relocate the battery. i plan on installing my eclipse 7002 screen, vcr, dvd, and couple amps. i'm going to build a box b/t the strut towers like the guy did here on the forum, but plan on using three jl audio 6w0-8 for a 2.66 ohm load. i've got a ppi frx-322 crossover, par-225 eq, a404 4ch, and promos 50 (400 watts at 2 ohms). with my mb quart mids and highs, it should definitely (hopefully) sound as good as the system i had in my 10th ann. but that is off the subject, except for having to have a big battery that is still in the stock locale. everyone recommends the apex pfc, but i don't have the knowledge for tuning. that is why i wanted to do something like ryan said with the pettit unlimited. the closest place around me here in memphis is rotary performance. and that's 500 miles away. my aunt and uncle live in woodbridge, va which my mother told me is down hwy 1 from manassas. i could stay with them and have pfs do some tuning, but i've read things on here about his service/ personality. then there's pettit....18 hours away. btw, in the rx7store, the greddy 2 pc i/c pipes are like $180; the elbow is $185? i think. but am i reading it right where you can buy the 3pc kit which is the pipes and the elbow for $290. will these work on the pfs ic or the m2 med? if i'm not mistaken, the pfs mounts where the stock one does and maintains the same location of where the stock pipes go in and come out of. true or false?

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iTrader: (2)

I just moved from Woodbridge Va. PFS is a decent shop. I wouldnt be concerned about him tuning your car. But its not needed. You can buy the PFC already tined. its done by putting in known variables that will offset Popular mods. i.e. DP.MP, Catback, Intake and intercooler. The PFC is a better ECU than a Remapped Stock ECU i.e Pettit unlimited ,M2 stage 3 etc. It has a 16 bit processor instead fo the stock 8 bit. That equates a smoother running car. There are many benefits of having a stand alone ECU like the Apex unit. The price to performance should steer you to the Apex unit. It will also allow you to monitor vital engine functions via the commander. Yes you can also have it tuned on a dyno for some extra power but its not needed. I have most every Mod so if you have questions PM me directly.

hapa

Spoolin, the M2 medium intercooler has been proven as an excellent, efficient intercooler. For keeping your battery in the stock position it's the best intercooler you can buy. Some people will say go for a front mount, but you have to decide what's best for you. The only drawbacks to the M2 are: it's a stock mount so it can heat soak easily (especially on the dyno or stop and go traffic). Also it's expensive. I wouldn't buy any intercooler pipes, until you buy an intercooler. It would be a waste of money to have expensive polished pipes that didn't work with your intercooler.

As for your computer question, the Power FC is an excellent computer. I bought one, and it runs excellent. Everyone on the forum has their own opinion on what computer to buy and why. I bought my Power FC from Jason at the rx7store over a year and a half ago. He gave me an excellent price and it was delivered before the date he promised it. It came with base maps that support my mods. Next I live in Los Angeles, so I can go to XS Engineering and get it tuned when I mod the car more. Now that the datalogit is out it's an even better computer. If you buy a Power FC and a datalogit you WILL be able to tune your car yourself on a wideband dyno. Chuck Westbrook has done numerous tests on the FC and provided tons of information to the Power FC forum. He's been a great resource and has helped many members tune their FC's. There are many maps available online for a base map for your car, then you can take your car to the dyno and fine tune the fuel and ignition till it runs extremely well. You can always purchase the Power FC with tuning beforehand as well, but it will need to be fine-tuned on the dyno. The Power FC ends the need for rom-tuned computers for the FD. It's truly plug and play, has excellent features, and can run virtually any mods on your car you need. I could go on and on about the Power FC. Let me know if you have any more questions.

eric

spoolin

1st, i heard that the apex intake was better than the m2....isn't true that if i get the m2 ic, than i have to run the m2 intake? would the pro's and con's of the weaker m2 intake and better ic equal to the better apex intake and (not sure about weaker, but maybe not as good) greddy stock mount ic? as for the ecu, i have no one around to tune my car when finished. granted the pfc and pmc come with base maps, but isn't the same as the upgraded from pettit or rtary perf? i mean, they all are going to have a baseline for the appropriate mods, i could get out with less money just buying one of theirs....if i go the other route, a) i'd spend more money initially to have the similar performance; b) i'd have to spend more money to drive somewhere (at least 500 miles to rp) and then spend to have them tune it and probably tell me i need something else; c) miss work; c) see the country; d) have bad *** car that when breaks down, have no local to tune it. i'm just skeptical. gotta go to work. get back later

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iTrader: (2)

The M2 is not weaker than the Apex intake. As far as design the M2 will bring in much colder air than the Apex "open air" design. The apex intake has one filter going toward the intercooler so it takes up valuable space when considering aftermarket intercoolers. The stock intercooler is too small for anything higher than stock boost levels. The M2 Med intercooler is Great. I did my homework before I bought mine. I think its worth the extra couple hundred for the best. of course you can buy whatever you want. I figure you came on the Forum to find out what people have already tried and see what works the best. I use a Feed headlight cover with my M2 Intake and I get direct Cold air to my Intake. The M2 is the Best intake in my opinion. As far as Intakes go you can use the pettit or a few others with the M2 intercooler. You are not stuck with just the M2 intake if you dont want to spend the money. All the Mods you talking about I have already done. You can IM me on AOL instant messanger for more details. "mik3ymomo"

hapa

Well, you can buy a pettit ecu, or an M2 unit, but it doesn't have the features or the expandability of the Power FC. The Power FC (when purchased with the commander) will give you an excellent read out display of many of your engine vitals. It will display engine temp. intake air temp, ignition timing front and rear, injector duty %, knock amount (not very useful), battery voltage, some others I can't think of from the top of my head. The power FC also gets rid of the 3K hesitation completely, gets rid of the AWS, and is a 16 bit cpu. The stock ecu is only 8bits (which includes M2 and pettit). Now if your only concerned about $, and you don't need or want any of these features, and your not going to want to upgrade your car more later, then the other computers are good choices as well. The M2 or pettit computers cost roughly $700. You can purchase the Power FC with the commander for $1100. So for $400 you get: greater expandability, an ecu that is twice as fast and makes your car run much, much smoother, a nice commander display, so you can keep your eyes on engine vitals, fixes a couple of typical FD problems, and is expandable at any later date. I personally drove a friend's car with an XS ecu (which they no longer sell) before I bought my power FC and the difference is night and day. Like I said if money is an issue, go the M2 route. But don't be mad if at a latter time you have to upgrade to a Power FC, Haltech, or AEM.

As for intakes, the Apexi filters have been tested and proven to flow the best. I personally would buy a cold air box, or fabricate one myself. You can purchase a few K&N filters for $80, and fabricate your own heat shield, and you have an intake almost as effective as the M2 or other cold air box. Check out http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobi...kn_filters.htm for more info.

eric