Where is everyone on their upgraded twins projects?
03 Cobra Killer
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,423
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From: All Over
Originally posted by BATMAN
He tunes it while u drive under real world load such as up the hill...... against the wind and so forth.
He has that headphone from Japan to listen for knock and then tunes it acordingly with Wide band running as well and dataloggit with laptop.
This is all done from the passenger seat.
He tunes it while u drive under real world load such as up the hill...... against the wind and so forth.
He has that headphone from Japan to listen for knock and then tunes it acordingly with Wide band running as well and dataloggit with laptop.
This is all done from the passenger seat.
Basically, If I'm in my car, I'm dataloging w/WB.
All logs get reviewed after I get home even if I haven't made any changes. If I'm making changes, the logs are reviewed realtime...The real world has ALOT of factors out there, I hope to capture as many as possible, then take them into consideration in my map if applicable.
K
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 1
From: Buckhead
Originally posted by j9fd3s
hmm, that would be cool to play with
, we are going to atp next weekish, if you want to go
mike
hmm, that would be cool to play with
, we are going to atp next weekish, if you want to gomike
I would like to compare my previous ATP run with my HFC to my new mods on the same dyno. that would be cool.
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 158
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From: Danville, Califonia
How much does that Frank guy charge for the in car tuning? And does he own a shop or is just some random guy who does tuning. Also has anyone acually done this and can say he knows what hes doing?
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 102
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From: Silicon Valley Bay Area
From what I heard Frank has a shop and has 3 pieces for tunning RX7's:
Dataloggit
Those Japanese Headphones
Wide-bandO2
He has done a number of cars, but I haven't been able to spend time to talk to him about details of what's involved. From what I heard he takes a whole day with you to really fine tune it for real world driving since he believes that Dyno tuning is a limited to one driving environment.
Apparently he was schooled by Excess Engineering who he is good friends with the guys there..........
That's all I know.
Dataloggit
Those Japanese Headphones
Wide-bandO2
He has done a number of cars, but I haven't been able to spend time to talk to him about details of what's involved. From what I heard he takes a whole day with you to really fine tune it for real world driving since he believes that Dyno tuning is a limited to one driving environment.
Apparently he was schooled by Excess Engineering who he is good friends with the guys there..........
That's all I know.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: Sarasota FL/Ft Lauderdale
286 RWHP at 15 LB of boost. A/F was still a bit rich and the turbos had no problem making boost so I can't figure out why I'm not getting more HP!?
Got my Power FC tuned for 1300 injectors by SR installed next week. I can't crank up the boost till I get a 3 bar MAP sensor.
But since my A/F still with the M2 chip I don't know if the FC will help much at 15 LB.
Any ideas?
Got my Power FC tuned for 1300 injectors by SR installed next week. I can't crank up the boost till I get a 3 bar MAP sensor.
But since my A/F still with the M2 chip I don't know if the FC will help much at 15 LB.
Any ideas?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 483
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From: Sarasota FL/Ft Lauderdale
Made 286 RWHP at 15 LB of boost. A/F was still a bit rich with the M2 chip. I can't figure out why i'm not making more HP? I got my Power FC tuned for 1300 injectors yesterday from SR. But till I get a 3 bar MAP sensor I can't turn the boost up. But since my A/F were OK with the M2 chip I don't see how the FC will give me any more HP at 15 LB. Any suggestions ? If I don't reply right away it's because my computers in the shop.
Racing is Life.....
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 576
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From: Northern California
Need to know other mods
Cap't Bill -
I think what ZB is asking is what else is on the car - stock vs. aftermarket i/c, catback, mp/cat, etc. I made 274 with my main cat before going to many other things at 15 lbs.... now at 330 rwhp and climbing.
What was your afr reading? 'rich' is too broad. Below 10? If so, you're putting the fire out with too much fuel.
With an M2 chip you get whatever Brian burned on it. With the PFC you'll be able to make timing changes and map changes on the fly, and also adjust for air temp for fuel and ignition. Timing makes a big difference, too, especially on torque. Trust me, you'll like the PFC.
You won't want to go past 15 lbs on the stock units even with a 3 bar - they generate too much heat to be effective.
Beast
I think what ZB is asking is what else is on the car - stock vs. aftermarket i/c, catback, mp/cat, etc. I made 274 with my main cat before going to many other things at 15 lbs.... now at 330 rwhp and climbing.
What was your afr reading? 'rich' is too broad. Below 10? If so, you're putting the fire out with too much fuel.
With an M2 chip you get whatever Brian burned on it. With the PFC you'll be able to make timing changes and map changes on the fly, and also adjust for air temp for fuel and ignition. Timing makes a big difference, too, especially on torque. Trust me, you'll like the PFC.
You won't want to go past 15 lbs on the stock units even with a 3 bar - they generate too much heat to be effective.
Beast
Rotary Freak
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,643
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From: l.a.
damn, you've got some serious problems. you've got 3 basic things to worry about, air, fuel, and spark. first check for boost leaks. check your backpressure too. what a/f readings were you getting? if it's too rich, lean it out. check your ignition, look at your dyno curve if it's smooth or choppy. what mods do you have? do you have full exhaust and fmic? i say start over from the beginning by dialing down your boost to stock levels. go from there.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 483
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From: Sarasota FL/Ft Lauderdale
No boost leaks that we could hear and boost builds fast.
I have a DP, MP with Borla in it and a PFS cat back back. Back pressure is 2 lb measured.
A/F was a tad rich but not sloppy. Don't have chart in front of me but as I recall it was in the low to mid 11s at 15 LB.
No ignition break up that we could hear and curve is smooth.
Stock ports
M2 cold air box
M2 high flow twin ball bearing turbos
M2 stage 3 chip
M2 large intercooler
TII leading coil
New ignition wires
bigger in tank fuel pump
pully kit
DP
Mp with Borla
PFS cat back
J&S knock sensor
profect b boost controler
removed air pump
removed second throttle plates
Cleaned and tested stock injectors
I have a DP, MP with Borla in it and a PFS cat back back. Back pressure is 2 lb measured.
A/F was a tad rich but not sloppy. Don't have chart in front of me but as I recall it was in the low to mid 11s at 15 LB.
No ignition break up that we could hear and curve is smooth.
Stock ports
M2 cold air box
M2 high flow twin ball bearing turbos
M2 stage 3 chip
M2 large intercooler
TII leading coil
New ignition wires
bigger in tank fuel pump
pully kit
DP
Mp with Borla
PFS cat back
J&S knock sensor
profect b boost controler
removed air pump
removed second throttle plates
Cleaned and tested stock injectors
Racing is Life.....
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
Weeeeellllll, hmmmmm....
Looks like you've got all the happy horseshit - and at those afrs, you should be higher in bhp. My 330 is with a similar setup running as low as 9.9 afrs....now I"m around 10.5 at 16 lbs all the way to redline.
How old is the motor? Compression could be an issue. It's not always accurate, but what sort of vacuum are you pulling at idle?
What injector duty cycles are you seeing? (you'll be able to tell once you put in the pfc with commander, and you'll want to get the datalogit software too. It's WONDERFUL!!!! If you can afford it, install a wideband permanently, too.
Let us know about your compression. The next thing will be get your pfc in and send us your settings. I suspect timing is the issue if your compression is ok.
Beast
How old is the motor? Compression could be an issue. It's not always accurate, but what sort of vacuum are you pulling at idle?
What injector duty cycles are you seeing? (you'll be able to tell once you put in the pfc with commander, and you'll want to get the datalogit software too. It's WONDERFUL!!!! If you can afford it, install a wideband permanently, too.
Let us know about your compression. The next thing will be get your pfc in and send us your settings. I suspect timing is the issue if your compression is ok.
Beast
Hello Guys. Just a quick note to give some information on the dyno Shiv uses to tune with. Here is a link to the Aussie site for Dyno Dynamics: www.dyno.com.au.
Here is a direct quote from our web site:
Generally regarded as the most advanced and sophisticated chassis dynamometer currently available in the world, the Australian-built Dyno Dynamics All-Wheel Chassis Dynamometer is capable of quantifying variables that other chassis dynamometers can only dream about. With real-time graphing, watch your torque and horsepower curves being generated while your car is making a dyno pull. With this feature, there is no need to subject the vehicle to an entire full-load dyno pull just to determine whether the last EFI calibration change was for the better. With unheard of resolution and sampling speeds, the Dyno Dynamics dynamometer is even able to pick up torque fluctuations caused by spurious knock sensor activity and pre-ignition. With completely adjustable ramp-up rates, the dyno is able to reproducing a wide array of real world conditions without any chance of tire slippage, regardless of power output. This allows the car to be tuned for the specific kinds of load characteristics it is expected to see on the road or track. Also, being a true steady state dynamometer, steady-state loading is also possible for optimal fuel and spark advance mapping. Simply put, there is no other chassis dynamometer in the word capable of quantifying virtually every aspect of power output. As a result, there is no better tool for tuning high-performance engines for real world conditions.
Unfortunately a dynojet does not perform anywhere near this level for tuning purposes as it cannot hold a load. Therefore the car being tuned must be subjected to repeated runs to redline to get midrange tuning completed. This is time consuming and not nearly as accurate as holding the car in 3rd gear with a load at 2000RPM and then accelerating to 3000rpm and holding the vehicle at that rpm and speed and fine tuning etc etc... We do tune the RX-7's but as with ALL vehicles that we dyno or tune we do have a waiver that must be completed before starting the session. The dyno we use will read a little lower horsepower wise than a dynojet(approx12-15% lower) or dynapack(approx 8-10%) or a mustang(approx 10%).
As for Capt Bill I would wait until you get that Power FC tuned before looking for other problems as the M2 ecu was never designed to work with those turbochargers. Tuning is 75% of the battle, quality parts is the remainding 25%. Was your timing off a few degress, A/F a little low by 1 point etc etc..... Get that thing tuned and then see you are still a little low on power Capt. Are you running 15 psi on the M2 ecu?? I hope not. It is not programmed for that level of boost on the factory turbos. Good luck with the car Bill.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
Brett Payne
Manager
Vishnu Performance
www.vishnutuning.com
Here is a direct quote from our web site:
Generally regarded as the most advanced and sophisticated chassis dynamometer currently available in the world, the Australian-built Dyno Dynamics All-Wheel Chassis Dynamometer is capable of quantifying variables that other chassis dynamometers can only dream about. With real-time graphing, watch your torque and horsepower curves being generated while your car is making a dyno pull. With this feature, there is no need to subject the vehicle to an entire full-load dyno pull just to determine whether the last EFI calibration change was for the better. With unheard of resolution and sampling speeds, the Dyno Dynamics dynamometer is even able to pick up torque fluctuations caused by spurious knock sensor activity and pre-ignition. With completely adjustable ramp-up rates, the dyno is able to reproducing a wide array of real world conditions without any chance of tire slippage, regardless of power output. This allows the car to be tuned for the specific kinds of load characteristics it is expected to see on the road or track. Also, being a true steady state dynamometer, steady-state loading is also possible for optimal fuel and spark advance mapping. Simply put, there is no other chassis dynamometer in the word capable of quantifying virtually every aspect of power output. As a result, there is no better tool for tuning high-performance engines for real world conditions.
Unfortunately a dynojet does not perform anywhere near this level for tuning purposes as it cannot hold a load. Therefore the car being tuned must be subjected to repeated runs to redline to get midrange tuning completed. This is time consuming and not nearly as accurate as holding the car in 3rd gear with a load at 2000RPM and then accelerating to 3000rpm and holding the vehicle at that rpm and speed and fine tuning etc etc... We do tune the RX-7's but as with ALL vehicles that we dyno or tune we do have a waiver that must be completed before starting the session. The dyno we use will read a little lower horsepower wise than a dynojet(approx12-15% lower) or dynapack(approx 8-10%) or a mustang(approx 10%).
As for Capt Bill I would wait until you get that Power FC tuned before looking for other problems as the M2 ecu was never designed to work with those turbochargers. Tuning is 75% of the battle, quality parts is the remainding 25%. Was your timing off a few degress, A/F a little low by 1 point etc etc..... Get that thing tuned and then see you are still a little low on power Capt. Are you running 15 psi on the M2 ecu?? I hope not. It is not programmed for that level of boost on the factory turbos. Good luck with the car Bill.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
Brett Payne
Manager
Vishnu Performance
www.vishnutuning.com
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 1
From: Buckhead
Originally posted by Thxbrett
Hello Guys. Just a quick note to give some information on the dyno Shiv uses to tune with. Here is a link to the Aussie site for Dyno Dynamics: www.dyno.com.au.
Here is a direct quote from our web site:
Generally regarded as the most advanced and sophisticated chassis dynamometer currently available in the world, the Australian-built Dyno Dynamics All-Wheel Chassis Dynamometer is capable of quantifying variables that other chassis dynamometers can only dream about. With real-time graphing, watch your torque and horsepower curves being generated while your car is making a dyno pull. With this feature, there is no need to subject the vehicle to an entire full-load dyno pull just to determine whether the last EFI calibration change was for the better. With unheard of resolution and sampling speeds, the Dyno Dynamics dynamometer is even able to pick up torque fluctuations caused by spurious knock sensor activity and pre-ignition. With completely adjustable ramp-up rates, the dyno is able to reproducing a wide array of real world conditions without any chance of tire slippage, regardless of power output. This allows the car to be tuned for the specific kinds of load characteristics it is expected to see on the road or track. Also, being a true steady state dynamometer, steady-state loading is also possible for optimal fuel and spark advance mapping. Simply put, there is no other chassis dynamometer in the word capable of quantifying virtually every aspect of power output. As a result, there is no better tool for tuning high-performance engines for real world conditions.
Unfortunately a dynojet does not perform anywhere near this level for tuning purposes as it cannot hold a load. Therefore the car being tuned must be subjected to repeated runs to redline to get midrange tuning completed. This is time consuming and not nearly as accurate as holding the car in 3rd gear with a load at 2000RPM and then accelerating to 3000rpm and holding the vehicle at that rpm and speed and fine tuning etc etc... We do tune the RX-7's but as with ALL vehicles that we dyno or tune we do have a waiver that must be completed before starting the session. The dyno we use will read a little lower horsepower wise than a dynojet(approx12-15% lower) or dynapack(approx 8-10%) or a mustang(approx 10%).
As for Capt Bill I would wait until you get that Power FC tuned before looking for other problems as the M2 ecu was never designed to work with those turbochargers. Tuning is 75% of the battle, quality parts is the remainding 25%. Was your timing off a few degress, A/F a little low by 1 point etc etc..... Get that thing tuned and then see you are still a little low on power Capt. Are you running 15 psi on the M2 ecu?? I hope not. It is not programmed for that level of boost on the factory turbos. Good luck with the car Bill.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
Brett Payne
Manager
Vishnu Performance
www.vishnutuning.com
Hello Guys. Just a quick note to give some information on the dyno Shiv uses to tune with. Here is a link to the Aussie site for Dyno Dynamics: www.dyno.com.au.
Here is a direct quote from our web site:
Generally regarded as the most advanced and sophisticated chassis dynamometer currently available in the world, the Australian-built Dyno Dynamics All-Wheel Chassis Dynamometer is capable of quantifying variables that other chassis dynamometers can only dream about. With real-time graphing, watch your torque and horsepower curves being generated while your car is making a dyno pull. With this feature, there is no need to subject the vehicle to an entire full-load dyno pull just to determine whether the last EFI calibration change was for the better. With unheard of resolution and sampling speeds, the Dyno Dynamics dynamometer is even able to pick up torque fluctuations caused by spurious knock sensor activity and pre-ignition. With completely adjustable ramp-up rates, the dyno is able to reproducing a wide array of real world conditions without any chance of tire slippage, regardless of power output. This allows the car to be tuned for the specific kinds of load characteristics it is expected to see on the road or track. Also, being a true steady state dynamometer, steady-state loading is also possible for optimal fuel and spark advance mapping. Simply put, there is no other chassis dynamometer in the word capable of quantifying virtually every aspect of power output. As a result, there is no better tool for tuning high-performance engines for real world conditions.
Unfortunately a dynojet does not perform anywhere near this level for tuning purposes as it cannot hold a load. Therefore the car being tuned must be subjected to repeated runs to redline to get midrange tuning completed. This is time consuming and not nearly as accurate as holding the car in 3rd gear with a load at 2000RPM and then accelerating to 3000rpm and holding the vehicle at that rpm and speed and fine tuning etc etc... We do tune the RX-7's but as with ALL vehicles that we dyno or tune we do have a waiver that must be completed before starting the session. The dyno we use will read a little lower horsepower wise than a dynojet(approx12-15% lower) or dynapack(approx 8-10%) or a mustang(approx 10%).
As for Capt Bill I would wait until you get that Power FC tuned before looking for other problems as the M2 ecu was never designed to work with those turbochargers. Tuning is 75% of the battle, quality parts is the remainding 25%. Was your timing off a few degress, A/F a little low by 1 point etc etc..... Get that thing tuned and then see you are still a little low on power Capt. Are you running 15 psi on the M2 ecu?? I hope not. It is not programmed for that level of boost on the factory turbos. Good luck with the car Bill.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
Brett Payne
Manager
Vishnu Performance
www.vishnutuning.com
Just so there is no mis-understanding I was very, very impressed with you guys. I would recommend you to others. When I need tuning again, I will be back.
David
I'm starting to loose faith in the fact that I have not seen one person make anywhere near 400rwhp (with dyno sheet to prove it) on some upgraded twins. A to4s is looking better and better. CJ
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: Sarasota FL/Ft Lauderdale
Well, the $64,000 question has been answered.
Namely, why the hell was I only getting 286 RWHP with all my mods and the M2 high flow ball bearing turbos.
Answer, low compression in the front rotor (less than 85 psi) and a cracked apex seal with even lower compression (lowest pulse of 57 psi) on the rear rotor. Now I don't feel so bad about ONLY making 286 rwhp.
Now it's time to get that Cosmo motor rebuilt and head for the 400 rwhp mark.
Namely, why the hell was I only getting 286 RWHP with all my mods and the M2 high flow ball bearing turbos.
Answer, low compression in the front rotor (less than 85 psi) and a cracked apex seal with even lower compression (lowest pulse of 57 psi) on the rear rotor. Now I don't feel so bad about ONLY making 286 rwhp.
Now it's time to get that Cosmo motor rebuilt and head for the 400 rwhp mark.
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 0
From: Tejas
you will see your numbers soon enough pp13
gregs car put out 358 at 15lbs....on a cat and stock motor....add a midpipe and a streetport like i have...and run the boost that they need to perform and you will see 400hp
a streetport and midpipe on the boost he was running would put him very close to 400 anyhow...now imagine another four lbs of boost there too.
Im shooting for jan feb dyno time...lets see what happens.
j
gregs car put out 358 at 15lbs....on a cat and stock motor....add a midpipe and a streetport like i have...and run the boost that they need to perform and you will see 400hp
a streetport and midpipe on the boost he was running would put him very close to 400 anyhow...now imagine another four lbs of boost there too.
Im shooting for jan feb dyno time...lets see what happens.
j
Last edited by artguy; Jan 4, 2003 at 02:44 PM.
Well, I'm not going to hold my breath. But if you do, or anyone else does, more power to them. I know you've put alot of $$ and time into your car, and it would be nice to see someone do it.
Also note, that last comment of mine was made pre, secret weapons. CJ
Also note, that last comment of mine was made pre, secret weapons. CJ
Well I was thinking about doing a gt35/40, but have'nt come to a decision. The single setup won't be for awhile, as I've decided to keep my ATV, and not sell it. You see, I was planning on taking the money and putting it toward the single. O-well, I can wait for awhile. I'm shure there'll be a couple more options for singles by the time I'm ready. Besides that, I still have to get a CB, and a fuel system. CJ
