Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

For me, that has more to do with my wife removing clothes than getting dirtying under my car.

elfking

Mahjik,
The project and documetation has been a great read! Im sure you will get get back on the road and be happy!

I do have a question though, what shocks/springs do you use? Or are you using coilovers?

If you don't mind me asking of course...

Thanks!

HDP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, but they are continuous threaded studs and don't have a "brake" to prevent them from threading too deep. Also, you can purchase flanged serrated nuts from most parts stores.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Right now the car is on Tokico and Tein S-Tech springs. I might eventually go coilovers but right now I really enjoy this setup. If I had it to do over again, I might get the Konis instead but I've been happy with the Tokicos so far.

goz

sorry im new to rx7s but on mine it dosent have that black air box style thing on yhe left ..is this aftermarket and whats it fuction?also great work but i have to say all tho your work looks great unless rich id reather spend the money on makin it run better..also whats the point in havin the rotor done cermaic?thanks

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

You'll have to let me know which picture you are referring to.


Actually, it is. The motor has been ported, built with better tolerances, using stronger engine studs, oil pan baffling, etc.

Reduces the amount of heat the rotors hold during combustion. It should allow the heat to be used for combustion instead of being absorbed by the rotors making a better overall combustion cycle, less chances of carbon build up on the rotors, less chance of hot spots on the rotors, and maybe a little power increase from the better combustion cycle (but probably at the cost of a little hotter EGT's).

HDP

iTrader: (2)

What size engine mount bolts did you order?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

It's been so long but I believe this was the order:

Metric 8.8 Zinc-Pltd Steel Hex Head Cap Screw M12 Size, 35 mm L, 1.25 mm Pitch, Fully Threaded, Packs of 10

Part Number: 91180A718

HDP

iTrader: (2)

Thanks!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Just a little update.

I had switched jobs so that freed up more time, however my family has been needing more time. So, my job changed has helped out there, but not necessarily with getting any more work on the car done.

The new wiring harness was put in, the old syrup gas was drained out and new fresh gas was put in. The car fired up on the first crank and the dash no longer looked like a Christmas tree.

While not having some of the limp mode codes anymore, the car was idling better but not where I would want it. I also had some fluid leaks. I fixed the coolant leaks but I still have a small oil leak to take care of. Now for the bad:

The does run, but there does seem to be 2 problems which may cause the engine to come back out:

1. I compression tested the engine this weekend. I didn't do a 'real' compression test (engine warm, etc); I did a cold engine just to check the faces. The front rotor was perfect however the rear rotor shows that one seal is not sealing like it should. The difference isn't bad, but it's not perfect like the front rotor. I did have one rotor damaged coming back from coating, however I had it milled and it was working ok. However, I don't remember that ended up being the front or rear rotor. It's possible that a seal is just stuck and actually putting a few miles on it will allow it to pop loose.

2. Smoking. The car has more excess smoke than it should. Its burning oil. I suppose its possible that the oil control springs are not in the right order, or that its some other problem. The car has only run for about 20-25 minutes total, but I would have expected to expel the engine building/lubricating fluids by now.

So, where does that leave me? It leaves me really thinking hard about the cars I listed in the "What car would replace your FD" thread.

I didn't expect to be able to build the perfect motor right off the bat. The real rebuilders know what they know from experience, so I can only hope to learn from my mistakes. I d0 have some options and I have been thinking them over:

1. Put the rest of the stuff on the car, drive it around for a few miles and see if things change (i.e. the seal starts sealing to even out the rear rotor and the smoking dissipates).

2. Its winter, go ahead and pull the motor and dismantle the engine to see whats going on with the apex seals on the rear rotor and check the oil control ring springs on both rotors.

3. Buy a used built motor on the forum, slap it in and call it done. I would still pull my motor apart and get it 'right'.

4. Buy a reman motor, slap it in and call it done. I would still pull my motor apart and get it 'right'.

My problem with getting another motor is that I bought and did the stuff I did for a reason, as in its what I want to run. I can get the car running quickly by getting an already built motor and I know I would be happy with a running car, but I would not be 'satisfied'.

I will most likely start with option #1 (after fixing the minor oil leak). The winters in my area are generally mild. By next week, we should have weather were I could at least drive the car around a bit and then still be able to pull the motor to do what I need before winter is over.

Who knows, but I am quickly losing patience with the car. If I thought I'd be happy owning a Lotus Elise without the FD (I'm thinking of getting an Elise as another car), the FD would be gone.

BobfisH

Mahjik,

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

First off regarding the compression on the rear rotor - i would say drive it, see if it sorts itself out. It may just be a case of a seal needing bedding in. Do the 1000 miles, see where it leaves you. If you still dont have ideal compression, then personally i would just deal with it (as long as its not bad) but you could pull the engine if you want. Or even pull the trans off, remove the rear plate and have a look that way. The manifolds and twins will keep everything else bolted together as it should be if you remove the rear plate so this allows you to have a look without removing too much.

Second, the thing about using the oil...are you SURE its using oil? After a period of sitting it is natural for the car to drink some oil as obviously alot of it will go into filling the oil lines and oil coolers. Top it up and see how you go. If it continues to use oil at what im guessing is an alarming rate (after all your no noob, and im sure you know that rotarys do use oil by design!) then find out WHERE it uses oil.. If you get big blue clouds out the back on boost then it could be your turbos. If its using oil all the time, it could be your oil control seals. Just a note, on my first rebuild i filled the car right up to the "F" Line on the oil dipstick. After running for 10 minutes it was down to just over the E. I filled it back up to halfway and it now hardly uses any. Also dont forget how god damn hard it was to push those oil control rings over the rubbers and onto the springs. Those springs are damn flimsy and dont push too hard - it takes a good few heat cycles and a lot of vibration for them to come out and apply enough pressure to the end plates to create a good seal.

Just remember that everything on the rotors fits pretty darn tight, and it takes a few heat cycles for it to all seat correctly. Im on my second rebuild now. My first one started on one rotor, smoking like crap for 100 miles (this is totally normal as all the crap gets burnt out of the cat and engine) and kept stalling. 10,000 miles later its pulling perfect compression, starts on the button every time and feels tight as a virgins ***. My second rebuild keeps flooding and flooding and flooding. This was the injectors... BOTH cars had a HIDEOUS squeaking (louder than my exhaust) at anyhting over 1800 rpm when first rebuilt. This squeaking has now gone awway on both of them

I think (IIRC) you had your injectors cleaned months before the car started? Just a word of warning, the crap they use to clean them solidifies and causes problems if they arent washed out with fuel pretty quick. I had a set of injectors cleaned and 2 months later of no use they were all stuck closed. Getting them cleaned again fixed it.

I hope you get the issues sorted soon dude. Dont worry and be patient. Its PERFECTLY natural to be worried sick a bout your first rebuild (**** i was, i almost wore ear muffs when i first started it incase it blew up as soon as i started it!)

The only cure for the worry is to drive the car and enjoy it. Then your love affair will be re-kindled

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Kyle, I wouldnt jump the gun here . I'd feel proud if I were you, what you've accomplished is no small feat. Go ask those elise/m3/corvette owners how many of them have built their own engine.

Re: the idling, you may have a partially stuck side seal if you clearanced it tightly. One thing you can try which may help and can't hurt: Suck a bit of marvel mystery oil through one of the passenger side UIM nipples while revving the car to about 3k rpms. Whenever a fresh rebuild is running rough, in my experience this usually clears it up.

Re: the smoking, how much are we talking here? 20-35 minutes of idling should burn off most of the assy lube, but you need to drive the car under load for a bit before jumping to any conclusions. If you followed the FSM installing the oil control o-ring springs, you'll be fine.

BobfisH

P.s - i took a lotus elise owner round the nurburgring in my stock FD when i went.

A week later he had no Elise, and an FD in its place.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Bobfish makes a good point about the injectors---when the clean them they run a varnish through them, and it can cause the injs to stick if they are let to sit around for awhile. You'd think they'd include some kind of notice/warning when they send the injs back to you, but I suppose that'd make too much sense.

dubulup

Mahjik - your post hits hard at home. First off, I agree with starting with option 1...loading a motor "is" breaking it in, a lot different than idling and heat cycling. This will do a lot for your seals.

Secondly, as you know...the first motor I built was in my FD; for 13k miles...out right now due to TO bearing failure. The motor is fine, but I'm not sure I want to put it back in because I'm not 'satisfied' as you say.

I've learned a lot since I built the engine, and have built stronger engines since then. I have a lot of expensive work done to the internals, yet I didn't understand how important side seal shaping is...not just clearancing. So I get more blow-by, than I like...and my oil gets really dirty after only 1000mi.

It's a great feeling knowing you built the power in your FD...and smoke most vehicles on the street. But knowing what it "could" do...isn't so great of a feeling. My goals have changed with the car over the last year or so...call it getting older or whatever, but I'm at the point where the reman's look like the best option for me. Order an off the shelf block, warranty, bolt my single up, plug in my Haltech, spray my AI, tune it, and run with it...HARD. When it fails all I do is swap the core...probably won't even have to tune it (much). Swapping shortblocks can be done in a weekend.

If I don't call it quits sometime...the SMS will win and I'll always be wrenching instead of driving. I just had to remember how much fun my OEM engine was...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure that its not a bedding problem. It seems more like a stuck seal do to the readings from the compression test. But I am leaning right now towards at least driving it for a bit to see if things change. I still have plenty of time before winter is over here so if I need to pull the motor again, I have about 2 months to deal with it before spring is here.

Yes, I'm pretty certain it is oil (I also had a friend over helping with the compression test and he also suggested it was oil burning) but I will check on the injectors as well. They were cleaned WELL before they were used.

Rich,

I did use some real tight tolerances on the side seals, but I did try to make sure they weren't getting stuck during the grinding. I had MMO sitting in the motor while I was waiting to get the rest of the stuff to start it. I'll add some more on the next start to see if it helps out. I do plan to go head and drive it a bit. But if I'm laying down a smoke trail to hide a good size regiment, then I'll have to do something at that point.

As far as the smoking, it doesn't billow out a Spy Hunter smoke screen but it is noticeable coming out the exhaust. I've seen some first start-ups and coolant seal failures and is nothing that excessive.

BobfisH

Ok then, id say dont worry about the smoking, it clears up gradually - honestly, it does take a while.

And while your injectors may have been well cleaned, how long after cleaning were they first used? if it was more than 2 weeks, get them cleaned again.

What readings are you getting on the compression test?

And re: the oil being used, i didnt mean are you sure its oil its using, i meant are you sure that oil is being burnt? How much does it go through and how quick? if you top it up does it go down quick?

I'd say drive it for 50 miles under load, then drain your oil and run a magnet round in what youve just drained. Check for shavings etc and cut your oil filter open and inspect that.

If theres no swarf in there then you know its a case of something not sealing properly rather than something not seated correctly (and griding away your end plates, do you remember Aeka GSR's rebuild?)

I would say as long as your compression values for each face are +/- 50% of each other and your oil isnt being used so quick that you cant drive the car then i'd drive it and see what happens. Also note that all this smoke though could be due to an injector stuck open - so inspect those too. Does it smell pig rich?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yep, I'm hopefully that putting a little actual stress on the motor will help it.

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking the idea of using the remans for what I do. As you said, you can blow one and swap in another one in just a weekend. In hindsight, I would have probably gone this route.

I still would have polished everything though!

I'll take a break from the garage this evening, watch a Backyardigans movie with my daughter and then hit it again on Tuesday. I do need to have the rest of the exhaust welded up, but that's about it aside from just throwing the rest of the intake track back in the car.

BobfisH

Correction, ive just realise you probably meant that they were cleaned a long time before they are used, rather than menaing they were well cleaned before being used! lol

BobfisH

you need to have everything hooked up as if you were going to drive the car for 1000 miles really to get an accurate idea of its health. Its fine starting it with no intake elbow on, but without everything else connected to car wont pull appropriate vacuum and will idle funky....(from experience! lol)

Enjoy your film dude!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

It's hard to tell right now with the oil leak. Once I get the oil leak taken care of, I will be able to motor the oil level to see how much is being consumed.

That's my current plan. Yep, I do remember Aeka's rebuild. I've had nightmares of it for the past 2 years. I don't think I'm grinding anything away as the engine sound and motion seems very smooth and strong. But, I'll never rule anything out.

I will be checking the oil as not just for shavings but also for any traces of coolant.

I will be checking the injectors as well. I'm going to try and do a 50-100 miles check to see how everything is working. My next hurdle is getting the car inspected so I can drive it.

Absolutely. Everything will be reinstalled for driving. I still have a little work to do on moving some things around to get my newer components sorted, but that's just busy work.

BobfisH

good luck, keep us posted!

BobfisH

howd it go dude?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, just as most of the ice melted off the roads this week my driveway filled up with excavating equipment for my wife's landscaping project. So, the car is still stuck in the garage with a snow storm heading this way later today.

It will be probably a week before I can get it outside.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Just an update:

I got all my couplers and such in from Hose Techniques. So, everything but the elbow side is back in the car. I need to cut a pipe for the IC on that side which is no big deal. I left the elbow off right now so I can adjust the idle a little bit.

I still have yet to track down my oil leak. With the engine being rebuilt, I don't have dirty oil coming out so it's hard to see exactly where its coming from. I have put in some florescent leak finder and will be tracking it down soon.

With it being winter, I have been fighting illnesses with myself and my family for the past week or two. Now we are back to snow and ice covered roads again. If the weather warms up a bit to melt some of this stuff, I plan to take the car out on a drive this weekend.