The key is holding it to stock boost levels. A modest SMIC, open intake and more efficient exhaust are all performance mods as well as reliability mods...and probably could be handled by the stock ECU. But to be perfectly safe....a reflashed/re-programmed ECU is adequate.

 

Get it tuned. Why take the chance. I'm almost positive that you should. I had all the reliability mods done + exhaust and don't even have my SMIC on yet and I noticed that after the exhaust installation, the car drove differenly and backfired more. As long as you have a good tuner, getting a tune will only help the car. For what it is, its one of the most worthwhile ways to spend money on the car.

Also about the PFC stuff, I got my PFC for better drivability and for the use of the commander. Its nice being able to monitor more stuff without more gauges around.

 

okay i understand all your points and am still iffy on the power fc and i know the car has 85000miles but its been extremely babied all its life and runs really good. also i kinda left some mods out so let me restate them intake, downpipe, exhaust,Fluidyne radiator, boost gauge, Pettit fan switch, Pettit ast, upgraded oil pan, water temp gauge, new upgraded grounds,Act clutch,vacuum hoses, and i just changed every fluid in the car. sorry i left those out i was kinda tired when i wrote the thread. but the main idea is to keep the car happy. i have noticed its running a little rich right now, which is why i kinda want the power fc. so lets take a vote here please whoever posted to this thread say yes or no to the power fc

 

They should all be fine if you have proper boost control. Port your wastegate and get a manual boost controller set to 10PSI.

 

port the wastegate and you should be fine.
but I'm still gonna say yes

 

it's better for the car to run rich than for it to run lean. Plugs are cheaper than engines.

The PFC will run even more rich out of the box than the stock ECU. This is why it's typically considered an initial upgrade b/c by adding intake, dp, exhaust and tinkering with boost levels (upward obviously) the car will leaning out and produce knock. The PFC adds extra fuel and riches up the amount of fuel to the engine and reduces the chances of knock.

 

If things are running richer than normal on a stock ECU, then you need to look into your injectors or other issues, not change the ECU.

Overall, I'd say your setup is pretty well sorted w.r.t. reliability. At 85k the condition of the engine is what it is. Adding an intercooler or ECU won't magically stretch it into thousands of miles of extra life.

David

 

Commonly parroted mythology.

The fact is the stock IC, IC hoses, radiator, plastic elbow, AST, pre-cat, ECU, turbos, turbo contol system, brake rotors, and fuel filter (among other things) are all junk.

Here's what's worked for me for four years and counting, without a hiccup:

ALL emissions crap deleted. Cats simply do not last in these cars, they are a complete waste of time and hazardous to the life of your motor. They trap heat and choke off the engine. Live in CA? Move.

OMP deleted (premix only)

AST deleted. It's not needed. Another Mazduh boner.

Biggest stock mount IC you can find

All aluminum radiator

Conservatively tuned Power FC with all the supporting fuel mods, inlcuding bigger injectors, Supra fuel pump, Aeromotic regulator, and Aeromotive fuel filter

Hallman manual boost control (cockpit mounted), set at 15-16 psi or less for 93 pump. Zero creep. Creep killed my beautiful stock motor, which ran flawlessly for seven years. Learn from my mistake: NEVER drive an FD with boost creep.

Iridium Racing spark plugs

BNR Stage 2 non sequential turbos welded and hogged out by David Garfinkle. Oversize stainless steel wastegate door.

Full stainless 3" exhaust. No restrictors, none of that bs. Let it rip.

Ceramic coat everything (heat is the enemy, do everything you can to combat it)

Dual Oil Coolers (if you own a Touring or Base)

New (stock) coils

Replace/upgrade all necessary fuel lines and coolant lines.

New or repaired wiring harness.

3 mm apex seals. Yes, they DO resist detonation better, there isn't even the slightest question

Do these things and the car will be rock solid. Cut corners and it will pop. You can also go with a moderately sized single turbo and < 17 psi. Anything more (without alcohol injection) and you just like to waste your money. Take it from someone who has owned the car for 11 years and heard every pundit out there.

 

I agree with the fact that if the boost level is kept at stock (10psi), then no PFC is needed. However, I wouldn't suggest NOT to get one, either. To me, and like many others have said, it's a safe way to ensure your FD will be running properly in all aspects. Additionally, even if it's not really "needed" with stock boost levels, it's a great investment for future modifications if one so desires.

 

The Power FC allows you to monitor engine vitals (except oil press/temp) and max boost. For that reason alone it's a mandatory upgrade. What you don't know can kill your motor.

Oh btw, the stock plastic BOV (and mounting location) is also junk.

 

Nonsense. Stock cats...maybe. But good quality aftermarket "hi-flow" cats are
available, perform well and last MANY years on a properly running motor. And your eyes won't water when you walk around the car as it idles either.
Disagree again. Change your oil and augment with premix if you want. At least until the OP must rebuild at some point. Even then keeping it with upgraded lines doesn't hurt anything.
Biggest SMIC won't do anything without a decent duct. You also have to relocate battery. More work than what the OP probably wants or needs.
Mods you have go in your signature. NONE of these things are required or needed for stock boost levels as the OP indicated.
I agree. But maybe if you hadn't removed your cat, it wouldn't have creeped.
See above.

 

Even the metallic cats fail after a few years with low 11s AFR unburned fuel blowing through them. I owned the SMB. You're kidding yourself.

Bah...doesn't bother me in the slightest.

The OMP is a band aid. Four stroke oil is not designed to burn. Senior members on this forum, including Howard, all recognize pre-mix with a high quality two stroke is the only way to fly. Pettit Racing has been doing it for years.

I guess that's obvious. I run a mini battery with the turbojeff stainless tray.

If you want run stock boost levels, you'll be slow. S2000s and ricers will laugh at you. Not good.

 

you should really only be seeing low 11 afr's under boost, the OP sounds like someone that'll care for the car and not beat the every living **** out of it, therefore a good high-flow performance cat will be good for him.

I beg to differ, bone stock my FD beat s2000s and turbo b-series civics without blinking an eye

 

I've run my SMB cat for 3 years. Its still in excellent working condition. I ran a custom Random Tech metal cat that I had welded into my midpipe for 3 years before that. Both setups run had on track in HPDE scenarios. I also run full emissions. Car has been dead nuts reliable - much more so than the nearly new POS, money pit BMW e36 I had before the FD.


Slow is relative. Maybe you care what ricers think but the rest of us don't.


SgtBlue has it right.

 

okay sounds thanks alot guys for your info it helped alot now im gonna get a pfc for Christmas and im going to try to get a Pettit smic also

 

Have you inspected it recently? All I can say is, good luck. It will fail, just a matter of time.

I don't care what they think, I only care that they are well behind me. A stock boost FD will get raped by not a few cars of all stripes, not just rice.

I have it right, as proven by a four year trouble-free track record, but there are other ways to skin the cat (or remove the cat in this case)

 

LOL. So b/c I have 6 years of troublefree track record, does that make me more right.

Or does that just mean that there is more than just your way of achieving the same result - a reliable setup?

 

Ok, so this setup has worked for you for 4 years. That is exactly <one> datapoint in addition to the data points provided by all of the other owners on here.

I've owned my FD for 6 years, done numerous track days and autocrosses on the same motor. Stock IC, stock AST, stock radiator, stock cat. If one were to read your statement and take them without the advisable grain of salt, they would infer that my car should have blown up. It has not. So if you think it's possible to discuss this subject in a tone resembling black and white you're kidding yourself and wasting everyone else's time.

There are many ways to make a reliable FD, and no one owner's experience is enough basis to discount other successful experiences. Each car is different, each driver's environment is different, and then throw in a huge dollup of statistical randomness. I have not seen anything suggested thus far that is a bad idea, only many different good ones.

Or maybe you recognize there are multiple answers but your ego prevents you from accepting them?

David

 

Count yourself one of the lucky ones, since your's in an exceedingly rare case among hundreds of those who have attempted to track the car with a stock IC, cat (including the pre-cat?), AST, and radiator for any significant length of time and popped their motors. Are you going to try to deny that? You've also been a member here long enough carrying the "keep it stock" flag to know what to look for, most people aren't going to be so lucky. I prefer not to gamble with my motor.

It IS black and white. The stock parts I mentioned ARE junk. They are cheap, undersized, and/or constructed of inappropriate materials. Period. The stock car has many flaws.

 

I see no point in a power fc if stock boost levels are maintained. The stock ecu runs plenty rich even for any increases in airflow from exhaust and intake. If the stock cat remains, then boost creep should not be an issue. There is also no point in rewiring the fuel pump if still running the stock ecu. All that would do is cause richer mixtures. For that matter the stock fuel pump is plenty for a basically stock car. It's even plenty for a mildly modified car once rewired, but again no point with the stock ecu. A pfc on the other hand will make the car run better once tuned and the leaner mixtures will give more power and reduce carbon buildup. Being able to turn the fans on earlier is beneficial too. Water injection will help keep the engine clean and really has no downsides. Intercooler is a good upgrade, stock is worthless.

 

I have a Bonez hi-flow that's at least 8 years old. Matrix is fine and it performs excellent.

Based on your posts, this doesn't surprise me.

Then the OMP was a bandaid on my car for about 90,000 miles before a coolant seal failure. About average and note....it was NOT a hard seal failure. NO ill effects in all that time from the OMP. And 'gasp'....I even run synthetic.
I'm happy for you. Really. But your still padding your sig.
Not good if your trying to compensate for something. My car is fast enough to enjoy and be proud of. Certainly faster than all but the very seriously modded S2k.

 

No car part is perfect. They never last long enough / always cost too much / never perform well enough / weigh too much / don't look good. While the stock AST, radiator, and intercooler have their drawbacks (and they are well documented), I certainly do not see the stock cat as such a liability. Furthermore, if you're saying that all FD owners should run straight pipes I definitely think you're off.

I know I won't change your opinion and you haven't made progress in promoting yours, so I have nothing more to add.

I still laugh when I read you repeatedly stating "I'm right, you're wrong" in different terms. You're a sad little man.

David

 

Talk to me in 10 years. We'll see who still has the same motor (intact). There are plenty of senior members here such as Howard Coleman who side with me in terms of replacing stock parts to ensure maximum reliability. Given a poll of such experienced owners, you would stand alone with a handful of newbies, son. I am right, and the only "sad (and slow) little man" might be you.

 

How many miles? Most fail to make it 50k. Again, well documented.

I find tree huggers anooying. Running this car without a cat isn't going to kill the planet.

So? The point is pre-mix two stroke is a superior method of apex seal lubrication. Again, see Howard Coleman's many posts on this subject. Do you now have more experience than him?

No, I just corrected a typo and added some bold font. Not sure what that has to do with this...

*Sigh* not this tired bullshit. I like to win. I'm competitive. The stock car gets smacked around by F bodies, vettes, Mustangs, and just about anything else...then it breaks.

Turbo S2Ks make about 320-340 rwhp easily. I just ran one last weekend and it was pretty damn close up to 120.

 

A reliable set-up for me is a combination "function over form" and "eliminating things which won't hurt function". So with that philosophy:
- I bypassed the clutch switch and the starter relay
- I am buying a Bosch or Varta battery instead of a smaller lightweight battery.
- I am going to remove emissions stuff
this is just the beginning though, I'll have to do most of what the other members recommended.