What power am i looking at?
01-05-07, 11:32 AM
#26
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
I can't agree with this advice and it's not cause I have a great fuel setup for sale 
You shouldn't stretch the injectors anymore than you should strectch the pump. When it comes to fuel and rotories keep it safe meaning you don't won't either to get hot from being overworked causing a slow down of fuel. Same with charge, water and oil temps. Everything needs to be overbuilt especially if you're tracking the car.
You shouldn't stretch the injectors anymore than you should strectch the pump. When it comes to fuel and rotories keep it safe meaning you don't won't either to get hot from being overworked causing a slow down of fuel. Same with charge, water and oil temps. Everything needs to be overbuilt especially if you're tracking the car.
Originally Posted by switch
Injectors won't over heat with high duty cycles since more fuel is flowing thru them and at the same time cooling the coil windings.
WitchHunter Performance
01-05-07, 12:34 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
I disagree with the injectors getting hot and having a problem from high duty cycles (as well as injector companies saying that it doesn't happen):
I know you already made that clear. I'll get some bigger injectors and work em at 85% MAX just so I can sleep at night. The word hot was not the appropriate word to use. AGAIN do not stretch fuel capacity in any way shape or form with a FD because DETONATION is the DEVIL I tell you, THE DEVIL
http://www.injector.com/faq.php
01-05-07, 12:42 PM
#28
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
I know you already made that clear. I'll get some bigger injectors and work em at 85% MAX just so I can sleep at night. The word hot was not the appropriate word to use. AGAIN do not stretch fuel capacity in any way shape or form with a FD because DETONATION is the DEVIL I tell you, THE DEVIL
http://www.injector.com/faq.php
http://www.injector.com/faq.php
However, I just disagree with the way a majority of the forum goes about attacking it. They throw so much fuel at it without considering all the other factors (ignition, charge temps, etc).I still always go back to this post from Wade:
Originally posted by Wade
"Safely" is a relative term, safety doesn't have as much to do with the duty cycle of your injectors as it does everything else like charge temp, a:f ratio, timing. PFS is right on this one, think of PFS whatever you want (good or bad, I couldn't care less) but an FD can certainly make 400 rwhp with the stock injectors, it has been done.
I'm not sure why so many people freak out about hitting high duty cycles with stock injectors. Here are some things to consider:
1) I don't know anyone who has had an injector failure from driving the stock ones at high duty cycles, and a lot of people have done this for YEARS
2) I DO know several people who had enlarged injectors fail
3) There is no reason why an injector should fail just because it is staying open instead of clicking on and off several times per second... someone explain to me their reasoning on this!
4) It is the fuel injection companies that are telling you that beyond 85% duty is a bad thing, big surprise
5) I think beyond 85% *IS* a bad thing in a sense because it leaves no more room for mods if your a:f is exactly where you want it, you could lose tuning flexibility... but I wouldn't freak out about thinking my engine would blow because my duty cycles are high
6) High duty cycles only occur right near redline anyway, we're talking about a second or two when raking through the gears unless you are going for a top speed run at Bonneville
My conclusion is there is no need to upgrade injectors until there is a NEED to upgrade injectors. I run 15psi of boost with stock injectors and pressure and have been hitting 100% duty for almost 4 years now. If one of my injectors fails I'll know it and I highly doubt I'll blow my engine because of it.
Wade
"Safely" is a relative term, safety doesn't have as much to do with the duty cycle of your injectors as it does everything else like charge temp, a:f ratio, timing. PFS is right on this one, think of PFS whatever you want (good or bad, I couldn't care less) but an FD can certainly make 400 rwhp with the stock injectors, it has been done.
I'm not sure why so many people freak out about hitting high duty cycles with stock injectors. Here are some things to consider:
1) I don't know anyone who has had an injector failure from driving the stock ones at high duty cycles, and a lot of people have done this for YEARS
2) I DO know several people who had enlarged injectors fail
3) There is no reason why an injector should fail just because it is staying open instead of clicking on and off several times per second... someone explain to me their reasoning on this!
4) It is the fuel injection companies that are telling you that beyond 85% duty is a bad thing, big surprise
5) I think beyond 85% *IS* a bad thing in a sense because it leaves no more room for mods if your a:f is exactly where you want it, you could lose tuning flexibility... but I wouldn't freak out about thinking my engine would blow because my duty cycles are high
6) High duty cycles only occur right near redline anyway, we're talking about a second or two when raking through the gears unless you are going for a top speed run at Bonneville
My conclusion is there is no need to upgrade injectors until there is a NEED to upgrade injectors. I run 15psi of boost with stock injectors and pressure and have been hitting 100% duty for almost 4 years now. If one of my injectors fails I'll know it and I highly doubt I'll blow my engine because of it.
Wade
01-05-07, 12:52 PM
#29
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I agree with some of his points for sure but running 15psi with stock injectors is playing with a loading gun. Also I'd kill the stock turbos in 3 months lol
Does Wade track the car at a high level?
Anyway I think mazda runs the injectors at 70% to avoid lean conditions not because they like big injectors.
Does Wade track the car at a high level?
Anyway I think mazda runs the injectors at 70% to avoid lean conditions not because they like big injectors.
01-05-07, 01:22 PM
#30
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
I agree with some of his points for sure but running 15psi with stock injectors is playing with a loading gun. Also I'd kill the stock turbos in 3 months lol
Does Wade track the car at a high level?
Does Wade track the car at a high level?
However, several have run 15 PSI on the stock fuel system for drag runs and such without issues for years. RTS3GEN is one, and he also road races his car. But as I mentioned above, he doesn't run that boost level on a road course.
Once again, I don't consider the injectors to be the weakest point when trying to run the stock system at higher boost levels. I would point to the fuel pump before the injectors as it has shown inadequacies at higher boost levels on the stock system.
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
Anyway I think mazda runs the injectors at 70% to avoid lean conditions not because they like big injectors.
For street cars, Mazda is definitely going error on the side of conservative as they don't want their shops filled up with warranty claims (pretty much most companies do that as people have extracted quite a bit of power from C5 Z06 with just a retune and no mods). After all, the idea is to make money off the cars.For basically a 'tuner' car, IMO, there is no problem running higher duty cycles. You aren't a race team with a huge budget, and you are pushing the car a lot more than what someone would require on the street.
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