zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

I'm looking for a more comprehensive thought process on which items to choose for my goals.

Goal: 380whp, daily, reliably, with A/C.

I want to have the setup a little overbuilt so that it could essentially be a de-tuned 380whp car capable of more. I think this will help reliability. I won't be pushing limits on boost, AFRs, duty cycle, etc. So I guess I REALLY want a 420whp car with the boost turned down.

I'd like all the supporting mods to be in equilibrium for my power goal. I don't want the biggest injectors or biggest IC, just the ones that are big enough! I don't want to sacrifice response, spool, or idle if I don't have to.

Questions:
1) GT35r or 500r?
2) What IC would suffice? Would a SMIC with a duct be enough or would that heatsoak too quickly?
3) What size injectors would run at 99-100% duty cycle with a 35r at 420whp?
4) Which fuel pump and FPR would I need?
5) My fenders are slightly rolled, what is a good size wheel/tire for this power level?
6) Clutchmasters Stage 4 is strong enough right?
7) Would Alchohol/Water Inj be a good idea?

Last but NOT least:
8) Am I forgetting anything?

I know this info is out there and I've searched/read a lot, so I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,
ian

jamespond24

iTrader: (13)

Stay with a stock twin with alky inject.

jamespond24

iTrader: (13)

Questions:
1) GT35r or 500r?
2) What IC would suffice? Would a SMIC with a duct be enough or would that heatsoak too quickly?
3) What size injectors would run at 99-100% duty cycle with a 35r at 420whp?
4) Which fuel pump and FPR would I need?
5) My fenders are slightly rolled, what is a good size wheel/tire for this power level?
6) Clutchmasters Stage 4 is strong enough right?
7) Would Alchohol/Water Inj be a good idea?

answer:
1) depend on how much you $$$ want to spend ( any turbo will get you around 380rwhp) even stock turbo with a streetport will get you there.
2)smic or fmic is a plus
3) 99% duty cycle if you want to rebuilt your motor everything month. Go with 550cc and 1600cc secondary.
4) supra, walbro fp will get you around 400rwhp. aeromative fpr is my choice.
5) sorry not a wheel guy.
6) kinda over kill for your hp goal but if you have the $$$$ go for it.
7)this is a always a PLUS!

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

My understanding is that at the power level I'm describing the stockers are way past their efficiency range and blowing lots of hot air. Is that not true?

although I do like the spool and response of the stockers, mine are going out, and with so many moving parts to fail and heat issues, going single made sense to me.

Are there any stock twin/alcy inj 400hp cars you can reference for me?

I guess I'd rather run a larger turbo at lower PSI and thrash on the stock twins.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

my point on the injector's 99% cycle was at 420hp and my car will be running 380, so naturally they wouldnt have issues. I'm trying to get an idea of which injectors would be absolutely MAXED at 420.

Thanks for the feedback

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

I have the Apexi RX6 turbo and I love it. It spools very fast probably as fast as the twins, but can push 15 PSI. With the correct mods, you would be at your power goal.

jamespond24

iTrader: (13)

You don't want to run that high % on the injectors cause it will overheat it. Most peole on run around 70-80% duty cycle. Read this section about alky injection and it will answer you fuel questions
https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

you're still not getting what I'm saying. If hte injector was at 100% at 420hp, but the car was at 380hp, then the injectors would be at 80%-90%.

Let me rephrase: which injectors would be at 80% at 380hp? Would I really need 1600s?

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

I'm reading up on this. It seems like a great turbo for what I want. Where can I get it? Is there a kit out there or would my shop have to fab the DP?

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

GT35R (~1.0 hotside A/R), I think the 500R is a bit overkill for your power goals. There are many other single turbo options that would work, but the GT35R is really popular with the RX7 crowd. If you only want 380whp I would look at a smaller exhaust housing to increase response. You could also run the BNR stage3 twins.

A large quality SMIC with a good duct should work just fine.

I don't really know... I would guess that you would be pretty close to maxing out a 550cc/1200cc combo at 420whp. It seems that most people just go ahead and use 1600cc secondaries. 550cc/1600cc should be plenty for your setup... if you feel like adding more fuel you can just drop the stock 850cc secondaries into the primary rail (after milling it of course).

There are lots of options here... The easiest drop in fuel pump is probably the toyota supra denso pump, it should be able to handle your power goals. The aeromotive A1000-6 FPR seems to be popular and work well. There are plenty of other FPR's on the market (sunapse, sard, etc.)

IMO, this is really up to your budget. There are people out there running 400+whp on stock wheels with 245's in the rear. With the correct offsets and coilovers you can run 285's all around. I think a good 275 tire on a 10" wide wheel in the rear should keep you happy. Maybe go with a 255 tire on a 9" wheel in the front. It is all up to you...

I am not familiar with that clutch. Just look at the torque specs... FYI, a puck type clutch is probably not required for less than 400whp. The ACT street/strip clutch is one of the best options out there.

IMO, yes. Do a search and start reading... Howard Coleman has LOTS of useful AI posts. There is quite a bit of work involved with installing a proper AI system and tuning for it. But it can definitely be an engine saver...

probably, lol.

There is a LOT to consider when building a single turbo setup. One thing that you didn't mention is the ECU. You will need a standalone ECU, the most popular choice is the Apexi PowerFC, but I would choose the computer that your tuner is the most familiar with.

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

BNR's (or stock really) with bolt ons and 15psi.....DONE.

-J

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Afterburn - Thanks for the response!

I didn't mention I already have the PFC and HKS twinpower on a moderately ported, 3mm apex sealed motor. Tuned at 10psi and 304whp now, but the twins are going out, and my compression is 75s.

Glad to know the SMIC with duct would be ok. That saves time/money compared to a FMIC.

So 550 /1600 injectors dont require any custom rails or anything?

I'm still hesitant to stay with twins. My short experience with them is that they are hot, have lots of solenoids and other parts to break, restrictive, and they clutter up the engine bay. I think a new single would be way more reliable than any twins out there. From what I've been reading, a single can perform similarly (spool/response) without the other downsides.

That RX6 seems to fit the bill. Anyone know where the apexi rx6 kit can be purchased?

To recap my mod list:
-Rebuild with moderate port and new housings (Gotham)
-550s /1600s
-Fuel Lines
-Aeromotive FPR
-FP (Supra or Walbro)
-Apexi Rx6 or Garret GT35r Kit
-Larger SMIC with Duct (battery already in storage box)
-Clutch
-More rubber
-Water/Alcohol Injection to protect my new baby.
-PFC tune to 380whp (hoping to get this at moderate boost. 13psi?)

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

Well, the larger SMIC's (M2/ASP, PFS race, pettit race) are all close to $1000 used. So you may not be saving any money by going with an SMIC. SMIC's do allow more air to reach the radiator, so if you are planning on doing any driving at the track this is a HUGE plus. FMIC's are good for drag and street driving. It all depends on what you plan to do with the car.

1600cc injectors require an aftermarket secondary fuel rail. If you want to keep the stock secondary rail you will have to run bored out 850cc injectors. I think RC Engineering will bore them out to either 1200cc or 1300cc. I am pretty sure you can buy these bored out injectors from www.rx7store.net as well. IIRC, there were some reliability issues with these bored out secondaries... however this was from a few years ago and these issues were probably resolved. I'd do a quick search if you want to learn more.

In my opinion, I would just go ahead and throw some 1600cc injectors in there with a KGparts secondary rail.

The RX6 is a great turbo. The kit seems to be more expensive than others on the market, however it appears to be much more complete from looking at the pictures.

As for vendors, try:

www.rx7.com
www.rx7store.net

There are more, but those are two that sell the Apexi kit just off the top of my head.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

yeah, RX6 is not cheap, but you get what you pay for. Like I said, I could not be happier with mine. It starts spooling about as fast as the stock, but will get to full boost sooner.

The only complaint that I have ever heard about this turbo was from the drag guys that wished they had strapped a Cat turbo because they wanted stupid power and no driveability. The RX6 is a perfect street/strip combo with a predictable power curve but you can still spin the wheels in the first three gears if you choose to be so stupid.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys.

KGParts rail is added to my list along with the 1600s.

Funny you mention the radiator. I asked my shop that exact question and they didn't know. I want a track set-up, so a SMIC is good route. It may be expensive for those kits, but the install is easier so I'll save cash there. You don't have to take off the bumper I think is the big difference.

Well it's either the RX6 or GT35r. I'd probably get the Apex just to be different from the crowd. But $1400 difference in kit price, ouch! I do see the Apex kit is more complete. Hmmm.

silverTRD

iTrader: (37)

what made you choose 380 as a goal? especially with shopping for a single turbo kit? i know all the people that have the rx6 love it but IMO its not worth the money. i'd go with an aspec 35r kit. the t3 version will get you at 385 on pump at 15lbs. the t4 version will push more than 4 on pump.
380 may yield you wishing for more in time, especially with all the supporting mods needed equalling big bucks.
AI is awesome no matter waht you choose, twins or otherwise.
SMIC are wonderfull peices, asp medium for up to 400 IMO or the large for more than that.
also find a tuner in your area and find out what ecu to get. maybe you should just make the trek to gotham and they will take care of your PFC for sure. they also have a lot of insight on what turbo's to get. they have some nice kits

my .02

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Too bad you are in TX. I would let you drive mine to see how it is. At 15psi, I am putting about 400 to the wheels, but I have more than enough power at my 10 PSI daily boost level. Even when the occasional idiot want to show off at the stop light, I don't have to turn up my boost to spank him. Overall, I have been very impressed with the RX6 for its spooling capabilities and it is dead-on reliable.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

The main reason my goal is not higher, is because it is my ONLY car and gets me to and from work. My philosophy is that the higher the HP and/or boost, the more risk of issues and more cash on supporting mods. 380-390 seemed like a reasonable place to stop *shrug*.

Anyway, John at Protech Performance has been tuning my Power FC. In fact, I just went there during my lunch break to fix an idle issue.

The RX6 kit is very pricey. I saw one sell with like 50 miles on it for 2900 (wish I hadn't missed that). I know something like a BNR stage 3 setup would do what I want, but I can't help but think that a new single turbo would be way more reliable, run cooler, and weigh less than any sort of sequential setup. And if it spools early, that begs the question; what's the the point of a sequential system?

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

rx6??? IMO That turbo is a waste of $$$$.... BNR's can do anything you would want an rx6 to do for about 1/3 the price?

-J

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

The BNRs are $2400. The RX6 kit is $4k. So thats %62 more, not %300.

What else would I have to get for the RX6 kit that would make it 3x more?

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

Haha.... actually BNR's are $2150 and I haven't seen an rx6 for $4,000. And you will need IC piping for single turbo, BOV and whatever else isn't encluded in the "kit". And that wasn't even my point, the rx6 is a junk *** turbo and it IS over priced. Like I said BNR's will do everything a rx6 can do for less $$$. Honestly I don't give a crap what you buy but IMO an rx6 IS a bad choice.........But what do I know ehh

-J

skir2222

Very informative thread. I had a RX7store T04R kit, KG 550/1680 fuel system, walbro pump, PFC, PWR radiator, Pettit SMIC, Stock ignition, and open exhaust. It was very fast to me for being on stock ports driving around town. I believe going single was a very smart move, I love it and wouldn't turn back! I'll include a link of my setup now.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...41#post7858841

twomucboost4u

iTrader: (9)

Stock ports, GT35r t4 .86a/r, full exhaust, front mount, power FC, HKS twin power, iridium plugs, walboro 255 fp, SARD FPR, 550/1300 injector set up I made 372 @15 lbs with room for more but we had to stop tuning. Spool is rediculously quick and if i would have had any porting at all it would have easily been over 400 and that was with mild tuning. Driveabilty was awesome, no turbo lag at all started spooling around 2800 had full boost by 3700 with porting expect that to be a little better. As far as your intercooler as long as you can keep your AIT below 35 degrees youll be all good, if you do run AI then it really doenst matter what kind of intercooler your running hell you could run a cold air intake and a straight pipe from the turbo to the intake if you run AI. Anyways good luck

Chris

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Good point! I could spend the IC money on a good AI system instead. Currently I have a smic (stock size) greddy, which I think will heatsoak really fast at that power level especially with the ambient heat in texas. Also I like the idea of 1300 injectors. What was your duty cycle at that level?

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty set on going single. I only see advantages to it: heat, engine space, weight, reliability, simplicity. Mostly piece of mind and having a better understanding of what's under the hood so I can do more of my own work. I don't even want to know how to diagnose the sequential system; I just want to rip it out :P.