what do you think? 996 turbo vs FD
#52
73 13B 4 port
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M3 is a luxury sports car, could make a hell of a track car if properly done without all the leather, heated seats, etc. But I dont think they are anywhere near as fast as a modded FD, not even close though.
#53
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Originally Posted by rotorypolo
M3 is a luxury sports car, could make a hell of a track car if properly done without all the leather, heated seats, etc. But I dont think they are anywhere near as fast as a modded FD, not even close though.
#54
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matty, where I live people don't know what the car is, they see it as a 100,000 dollar sports car, remember we know what it is, they don't and that is how they will judge. Even people at my own company say, "Wow, nice car, we pay you too much, ha ha ha!" I'm like, ya whatever. Just things I've noticed, in my neck of the woods.
#55
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
I know someone who would seriously disagree w/ you guys who think the Porsche is superior. He had an FD back in the day. Then about a year and a half ago, he sold his 2004 Porsche 911 GT3 (as well as his SL55 AMG), and went back to FDs again https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=474089.
On that note, however, when I read about Porsche's *incredibly* advanced handling management systems, and their wind tunnel tested aerodynamics achievements, I honestly have no choice but to believe that the Porsche is simply a more advanced machine. Having said that, however, that doesn't mean that the 7 can't keep up w/ or even outperform the Porsche, provided w/ the correct mods. Technology can only take you so far, and the 7 is an incredible platform to start from IMO.
~Ramy
On that note, however, when I read about Porsche's *incredibly* advanced handling management systems, and their wind tunnel tested aerodynamics achievements, I honestly have no choice but to believe that the Porsche is simply a more advanced machine. Having said that, however, that doesn't mean that the 7 can't keep up w/ or even outperform the Porsche, provided w/ the correct mods. Technology can only take you so far, and the 7 is an incredible platform to start from IMO.
~Ramy
#56
Originally Posted by ptrhahn
You know, until the 996, the 911 varients had been essentially the same car since they came out in 1968... essentially a VW bug evolution.
I've ridden in my friends highly-modded '93 911TT, and it looked, smelled, and felt like my old 70's VW only with more power and leather seats. Hardly as refined or "developed" as my RX7 of the same vintage. Even some of the interior pieces like the guages and window cranks and such looked like exacly the same VW/AUDI/PORSCHE parts bin stuff.... yet nobody ran around in 1993 talking about how it was "uncomparable" to "modern" machines, probably because it said "porsche" on it and was $100,000. That Chassis was viable and world class for three decades, with "development", so there's no reason why the FD, which was ahead of it's time in 93, shouldn't still be viable today....
I've ridden in my friends highly-modded '93 911TT, and it looked, smelled, and felt like my old 70's VW only with more power and leather seats. Hardly as refined or "developed" as my RX7 of the same vintage. Even some of the interior pieces like the guages and window cranks and such looked like exacly the same VW/AUDI/PORSCHE parts bin stuff.... yet nobody ran around in 1993 talking about how it was "uncomparable" to "modern" machines, probably because it said "porsche" on it and was $100,000. That Chassis was viable and world class for three decades, with "development", so there's no reason why the FD, which was ahead of it's time in 93, shouldn't still be viable today....
Wait.
You go from talking about modding your car to todays "performance standards" with regard to a Porsche, then you decide to slag the INTERIOR of the porsche?
#57
Originally Posted by omochi
do you remember fong on here by any chance? I dont recall his screen name, but he tracks A LOT from what i've read/seen. he sold his FD.. got a GT3.. NEVER looked back.
#58
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Yeah, what's wrong with that?
Ever been in a '92 911? Remember, they've been making that car since 1968, and until the 996 redesign, there was quite a bit that was dated in them, including alot of interior parts that looked like they were from the 70's/80's. Like I said, I saw specific pieces in the car that were IDENTICAL to the pieces in one of my old VW's (not surprising given the companys heritage and partnership.
Ever been in a '92 911? Remember, they've been making that car since 1968, and until the 996 redesign, there was quite a bit that was dated in them, including alot of interior parts that looked like they were from the 70's/80's. Like I said, I saw specific pieces in the car that were IDENTICAL to the pieces in one of my old VW's (not surprising given the companys heritage and partnership.
Originally Posted by omochi
Wait.
You go from talking about modding your car to todays "performance standards" with regard to a Porsche, then you decide to slag the INTERIOR of the porsche?
You go from talking about modding your car to todays "performance standards" with regard to a Porsche, then you decide to slag the INTERIOR of the porsche?
#59
Rotary Enthusiast
A porsche is absolutely a higher performance machine. Recently, because of my 20B project my father decided to upgrade the turbos on his 1998 twin turbo. He expects that car to make around 690 hp with very few other modifications. He respects the FD, but after racing for many years, he would take the porsche everytime.
As far as the flaunting argument, I respect anyone who respects their car/cars. There is nothing wrong with buying the most bad *** car, like an enzo, if thats what you would like to do. Personally I prefer modding my FD in order to beat the **** out of cars that are much more expensive. The problem is, in the end, Ferrari and Porsche can modify their cars better then all the aftermarket parts in the world can do for ours.
As far as the flaunting argument, I respect anyone who respects their car/cars. There is nothing wrong with buying the most bad *** car, like an enzo, if thats what you would like to do. Personally I prefer modding my FD in order to beat the **** out of cars that are much more expensive. The problem is, in the end, Ferrari and Porsche can modify their cars better then all the aftermarket parts in the world can do for ours.
#61
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Put another way: The basic 911 came out in 1968. Every 911 varient up until the 996 was based on essentially the same car. You could litterally buy a '74 911 and "update" it with newer factory parts to build yourself a later model version of it.
So, the FD right now is a like 911 from 1981. Check any magazine from 1981, and you'll see everyone still considered the 911 one of the worlds best, let alone 11-12 years later in '92 or '93. All that was done to acheive this were updates and revisions by the factory... or when replicated by a private owner, "mods"
So, the FD right now is a like 911 from 1981. Check any magazine from 1981, and you'll see everyone still considered the 911 one of the worlds best, let alone 11-12 years later in '92 or '93. All that was done to acheive this were updates and revisions by the factory... or when replicated by a private owner, "mods"
#62
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
I'm sure there are 2 camps on all issues, but typically if one is clearly superior, everyone goes one direction, and practically NO ONE comes back. I have no problem admitting the Porsche is an easier/more reliable platform to start w/, but hopefully you'll also agree that an FD done *right* will give a Porsche it's run for the money, and then some. In fact, I plan on putting my money where my mouth is, and reporting back soon enough
#63
Originally Posted by ptrhahn
Yeah, what's wrong with that?
Ever been in a '92 911? Remember, they've been making that car since 1968, and until the 996 redesign, there was quite a bit that was dated in them, including alot of interior parts that looked like they were from the 70's/80's. Like I said, I saw specific pieces in the car that were IDENTICAL to the pieces in one of my old VW's (not surprising given the companys heritage and partnership.
Ever been in a '92 911? Remember, they've been making that car since 1968, and until the 996 redesign, there was quite a bit that was dated in them, including alot of interior parts that looked like they were from the 70's/80's. Like I said, I saw specific pieces in the car that were IDENTICAL to the pieces in one of my old VW's (not surprising given the companys heritage and partnership.
#64
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modern AWD is an ADVANTAGE in the twisties.
especially in a car with a rear weight bias like the 911!
anyways, here's how I think it would go down.
from a dig: You'd get owned in the face. (unless we're talking at a dragstrip with drag radials, then I think it would be pretty close)
From a roll: I think you'd have him... stock turbos must spool DAMN fast on a streetport with 350WHP.
Roadcourse... always depends on who can drive.
especially in a car with a rear weight bias like the 911!
anyways, here's how I think it would go down.
from a dig: You'd get owned in the face. (unless we're talking at a dragstrip with drag radials, then I think it would be pretty close)
From a roll: I think you'd have him... stock turbos must spool DAMN fast on a streetport with 350WHP.
Roadcourse... always depends on who can drive.
#65
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Nobody's "bashing" Porsches... or going off on tangents.
It seems that the consensus here is that the FD is an "inferior" platform because it's an older car... and I was using the interior of a Porsche, among other things, to point out that Porsches were considered the gold standard for quite some time despite working off of a platform from 1968 (up until the 996).
It seems that the consensus here is that the FD is an "inferior" platform because it's an older car... and I was using the interior of a Porsche, among other things, to point out that Porsches were considered the gold standard for quite some time despite working off of a platform from 1968 (up until the 996).
Originally Posted by omochi
Well, nothing wrong with talking about the interior, but I thought the topic of the cars overall performance was at the topic of hand, not going on a tangent and looking for other things about Porsches to bash.
Last edited by ptrhahn; 02-19-07 at 03:22 PM.
#66
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I agree with everything that you're saying, Peter. I've never understood why some guys didn't take more pride in their car, and value it for the purebred sportscar that it is. I wouldn't trade my FD for any porsche, including a GT2/GT3. I've built this sucker, anybody with the necessary funds can go purchase a new *insert highend car here*.
#67
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
I agree with everything that you're saying, Peter. I've never understood why some guys didn't take more pride in their car, and value it for the purebred sportscar that it is. I wouldn't trade my FD for any porsche, including a GT2/GT3. I've built this sucker, anybody with the necessary funds can go purchase a new *insert highend car here*.
You are kidding me. You would not trade it for anything, or just any porsche? Rich, I knew you loved your FD, but now you have gone too far! If you answer this in the affirmative I have a whole new persepective on the love you feel for that hot red head.
#69
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I dunno... the new 997 GT3 makes my nips hard. If I had the spare $100,000 I might sell my FD to Fritz and pick that sucker up. There's whole lot to love there besides lap time potential.
That said, I don't have the spare $100k (at least not if I feel like retiring ever), so I'll be perfectly satisfied running along with them in the RX.
I've also got enough friends with modded high-end $100,000 cars to know they aren't perfect either. You guys may not know how good you've got it w/ the FD.
That said, I don't have the spare $100k (at least not if I feel like retiring ever), so I'll be perfectly satisfied running along with them in the RX.
I've also got enough friends with modded high-end $100,000 cars to know they aren't perfect either. You guys may not know how good you've got it w/ the FD.
#70
Mr. Links
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
I agree with everything that you're saying, Peter. I've never understood why some guys didn't take more pride in their car, and value it for the purebred sportscar that it is. I wouldn't trade my FD for any porsche, including a GT2/GT3. I've built this sucker, anybody with the necessary funds can go purchase a new *insert highend car here*.
#71
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Originally Posted by ptrhahn
I've also got enough friends with modded high-end $100,000 cars to know they aren't perfect either. You guys may not know how good you've got it w/ the FD.
#72
Mr. Links
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Originally Posted by ptrhahn
I've also got enough friends with modded high-end $100,000 cars to know they aren't perfect either. You guys may not know how good you've got it w/ the FD.
As long as humans are doing the work, there will always be problems with cars. Its the type of problems which are the concern. For instance, my M3 (not $100k but more expensive than the FD) has had plastic door pieces crack, window trim fall off and a host of other small problems. Now, my '93 FD may have had the paint chip on the panels, but the entire part never cracked and my original window trim is still in place. However, I'm sure my BMW won't go through 3 engines by 80k miles either.
#73
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Not to take anything away from their succss, but Porsches rule in international GT racing has to do with alot more than the platform superiority of any of their particular models.
Among them are the Marque's committment to racing that has established it as THE standard customer GT racing car through the years. Other manufacturers are in and out, Porsche is always there, and always there with a consistent model (911) for which there are tons of development parts, tons of teams running them, tons of info, etc.
If I were a privateer GT racer, i'd definately buy a Porsche, because I know I can count on them to always be in it, always give me support, and always provide something that is an evolution of what I already have for continuities sake. The GT3 Cup turnkey racecar is practically a production model... as was the 962 in the IMSA days (imagine a prototype that starts with a key)... No other manufacturer has a serious and consistent customer racecar program other than Ferrari, and even that is far less consistent.
Winning in GT racing also takes a good lobby, and nobody is going to shaft a manufacturer like Porsche in the "equalization" rules, because they know that P-car fans and the Porsche club are major fan constituencies that they don't want to **** off.
Then there's MONEY.
FD's never won much in GT racing... but who was ever racing them? I saw Peter Farrel's operation at it's height, and it was a small operation at best compared to even some of the private operations I see show up at Vintage and Porsche club events. The last time I did a track event, some guy rolled up in a full-on 18-wheeler top of the line rig and rolled out his GT3 Cup... just to run the track... he wan't a pro race team, he was just some rich guy... with a full rig and a crew member!!
Among them are the Marque's committment to racing that has established it as THE standard customer GT racing car through the years. Other manufacturers are in and out, Porsche is always there, and always there with a consistent model (911) for which there are tons of development parts, tons of teams running them, tons of info, etc.
If I were a privateer GT racer, i'd definately buy a Porsche, because I know I can count on them to always be in it, always give me support, and always provide something that is an evolution of what I already have for continuities sake. The GT3 Cup turnkey racecar is practically a production model... as was the 962 in the IMSA days (imagine a prototype that starts with a key)... No other manufacturer has a serious and consistent customer racecar program other than Ferrari, and even that is far less consistent.
Winning in GT racing also takes a good lobby, and nobody is going to shaft a manufacturer like Porsche in the "equalization" rules, because they know that P-car fans and the Porsche club are major fan constituencies that they don't want to **** off.
Then there's MONEY.
FD's never won much in GT racing... but who was ever racing them? I saw Peter Farrel's operation at it's height, and it was a small operation at best compared to even some of the private operations I see show up at Vintage and Porsche club events. The last time I did a track event, some guy rolled up in a full-on 18-wheeler top of the line rig and rolled out his GT3 Cup... just to run the track... he wan't a pro race team, he was just some rich guy... with a full rig and a crew member!!
Originally Posted by Mahjik
Rich, there is a difference between taking pride in one's car and recognizing the great engineering in another platform. There is a reason Porsche basically rules in GT sports car racing across the world (and has for many years).
#74
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
Rich, there is a difference between taking pride in one's car and recognizing the great engineering in another platform.........
#75
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
Rich, there is a difference between taking pride in one's car and recognizing the great engineering in another platform. There is a reason Porsche basically rules in GT sports car racing across the world (and has for many years).