water dissapering
04-21-09, 10:09 PM
#1
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water dissapering
so my fd has been losing water but its not leaking nor is it overheating.. Its been really hot these past few days could that be it? just too hot so it evaporates?
04-22-09, 05:22 AM
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Planning my come back
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Do a search on champagne test. If you see the bubbles I would recommend a pressure test on your cooling system. See if that white smoke smells kind of sweet to you.
04-22-09, 08:29 AM
#8
Did this just start happening? Let the car sit for a couple nights then remove the spark plugs and see if they have coolant/water on them. Sounds like a coolant seal issue. However, I would bring the car up to temperature and then shut it off and inspect the engine bay very closely for any steam or smells of burnt coolant.
04-22-09, 06:21 PM
#9
white smoke IS typical alot of times. My car smokes white every time its cold outside during warm up because the condensation in the exhaust.
Also, I used to have a leaky fuel injector, and my car used to run really rich at idle...when I removed my Catalytic Converter is would smoke white on startup even in summer time. The mist would be very spaced out and smell like straight up fuel...it was definitely not coolant seals. Ever since I fixed the leaky injector and leaned out the AFR the mist is alot less pronounced.
As for loosing water, you could have a pinhole leak somewhere. I was mysteriously loosing water and had a small leak around the metal sleeve of one of the radiator hoses. The sleeve wasn't installed tight enough and water would not leak until the engine was running and on an incline. The water was slowly drip from around the hose/barb and run down the undertray to evaporate.
The champagne test is also not very reliable. I went to through a phase thinking my coolant seals were phucked because I would get bubbles in my radiator neck on startup....generally this is air working its way up. It really has to look like champaign/ginger ale with fast moving steady stream of bubbles to say its a seal problem.
Best way to check would be to feel the radiator hoses after you shut the car off or after its been running....if hoses are really tight, like explosively firm you might have an issue.
Also, I used to have a leaky fuel injector, and my car used to run really rich at idle...when I removed my Catalytic Converter is would smoke white on startup even in summer time. The mist would be very spaced out and smell like straight up fuel...it was definitely not coolant seals. Ever since I fixed the leaky injector and leaned out the AFR the mist is alot less pronounced.
As for loosing water, you could have a pinhole leak somewhere. I was mysteriously loosing water and had a small leak around the metal sleeve of one of the radiator hoses. The sleeve wasn't installed tight enough and water would not leak until the engine was running and on an incline. The water was slowly drip from around the hose/barb and run down the undertray to evaporate.
The champagne test is also not very reliable. I went to through a phase thinking my coolant seals were phucked because I would get bubbles in my radiator neck on startup....generally this is air working its way up. It really has to look like champaign/ginger ale with fast moving steady stream of bubbles to say its a seal problem.
Best way to check would be to feel the radiator hoses after you shut the car off or after its been running....if hoses are really tight, like explosively firm you might have an issue.
04-22-09, 07:37 PM
#10
Constant threat
Some good advice here, and you can also take your car to a GOOD service station or radiator shop and have them do a leak down test on your cooling system. And you can also send a sample of your coolant off to be analyzed for hydrocarbons which is one of the best ways to KNOW if you have a coolant seal problem.
As others have said, a properly functioning system loses NO coolant, period. Coolant loss IS a problem, and a big one...don't try to delude yourself (as I did when the same thing was happening to me prior to my rebuild!) thinking it might be a minor problem, because the only MINOR problems that could cause this are related to hoses/fittings leaking or the 'radiator' caps (thermostat fill and AST caps).
As others have said, a properly functioning system loses NO coolant, period. Coolant loss IS a problem, and a big one...don't try to delude yourself (as I did when the same thing was happening to me prior to my rebuild!) thinking it might be a minor problem, because the only MINOR problems that could cause this are related to hoses/fittings leaking or the 'radiator' caps (thermostat fill and AST caps).
04-22-09, 09:49 PM
#12
Do the champagne test. It's very simple and highly effective. When the car is STONE cold take off the coolant filler neck cap and start up the car. If you notice bubbles coming up into the filler neck it's your coolant seals. It's COMPLETELY normal to see coolant circulating and mixing around though.
04-23-09, 09:08 AM
#14
Wastegate John
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Is it a constant loss of coolant or do you have to add the same amount each time?You could also check the hose going from the ast to the overflow tank. Maybe it is sucking air when you shut the car off when the coolant cools down it does not suck the coolant back into the engine.
07-06-09, 07:05 PM
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sorry for not resonding for a while.. Car's alternator went out didnt have money to replace, been juggling work and school, just havent had time to work on the fd or anything... So lets see were I'm at.. I have to add coolant just about everytime I start my car... depending on how far I had to go... around the block no, to work yes. The car isn't overheating. I thought it wasnt leaking but it seems as if when my car turns off, the engine bubbles and I believe the water is boiling into my overflow res and then boiling out of that, its hard to tell but thats my theory on it since the water thats coming out is puddling up and then dripping off my splash guard. At first I thought my O-flo was cracked so I pulled it and thats not the case. I hear there are issues with the stock AST and I'm still using that.
I started having this problem after I replaced my water pump and housing. Probably should have mentioned that before
I started having this problem after I replaced my water pump and housing. Probably should have mentioned that before
07-06-09, 08:05 PM
#16
Constant threat
Sadly, this is very typical of a coolant seal going/gone bad. Combustion pressure overcomes the coolant pressure easily, over pressurizing the system and forcing coolant out the overflow.
Happened to me. I 'fixed' it for a while using block sealer, got about 6,000 miles more out of it before I had to rebuild.
Happened to me. I 'fixed' it for a while using block sealer, got about 6,000 miles more out of it before I had to rebuild.
07-07-09, 10:49 AM
#18
Don't throw in the towel yet. Coolant being dumped into the overflow upon shut off is a sign of your AST system not working properly. Check your hoses, change coolant caps, and make sure your clamps are tight. BTW don't cheap on on coolant caps get them from the dealer! yes they are $25 each but they are quality pieces.
My car did that and it turned out to be that the AST (pettit) was not sealing properly with the radiator cap. A bandaid fix (for my car ) was replacing the caps every couple of months, but the actual fix was going back to stock (I know yours is stock but the theory of a leaky system still applies).
good luck
My car did that and it turned out to be that the AST (pettit) was not sealing properly with the radiator cap. A bandaid fix (for my car ) was replacing the caps every couple of months, but the actual fix was going back to stock (I know yours is stock but the theory of a leaky system still applies).
good luck
07-07-09, 02:03 PM
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I might have found the problem last night... I had removed my o-flow tank and the lines leading up to the ast. I cleaned them all out and should replace them since they are so soft, but I dont have the money just yet. Another thing I noticed is there is alot of sludge? in my o-flow it was really nasty but thats a different issue id like to address. Anyway i put everything back together. Put coolant and what not in and started to notice that my rad cap that I replaced when I changed my pump is leaking out the top.. (it has a red flip switch thingy on it. and sorry im just waking up cant think straight) and that could be the water im seeing pooling up its roughly the same area
07-07-09, 02:13 PM
#20
TIME ATTACK FD
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That sludge you are referring to is oil being mixed in with your coolant, it is one of the signs of a coolant seal failure. Although it seems your seals are not as bad yet, cause you are still able to drive and not over heat. It is wise to not push that car as hard until you replace the motor...
07-07-09, 03:07 PM
#21
That sludge is fairly common. As to what it is there are theories ranging from dirt collecting in the over flow to the usage of using tap water II tend to believe the latter), but I put on 50K sludge miles on my FD before the engine died. It died due to carbon buildup on the rotor housings (not water related).
I understand that he is at 110K, so yeah he does not have much life left... But so far the symptoms are not indicative of a coolant seal failure.
dboy160,F
What you need to do is what djseven advised. Because everything else is just speculation. The champagne bubble test? it's bullshit as rust in the coolant causes bubbles. Rust yeah it happens if one does not use distilled water.
If it turns out that the coolant seals are fine and you fix the problem, sell the damn car! you cant afford it and that engine is going to die soon.
Last edited by Montego; 07-07-09 at 03:14 PM.
07-07-09, 04:32 PM
#22
IMO, coolant seal failure is often misdiagnosed due to faulty caps, leaking coolant lines and a host of other things already mentioned. djseven and other builders may correct me, but unless you manage to detonate or seriously overheat the car beforehand, it seems like bad coolant seals are the most frequent reason for a rebuild...usually somewhere around 100k miles.
Below are all the possible symtoms I can think of off-hand. With the possible exception of coolant on your plugs, NONE are definitive by themselves. But the more symptoms you have in combination (I had five)....the more likely that's the cause for the symtoms the OP has posted.
*Sweet smelling steam from the exhaust on cold start-up.
*Coolant stranded in the overflow tank due to loss of vacuum during cool-down. Coolant will eventually overflow and leak onto the ground.
*Stumbling on cold start-up (from coolant in the combustion chamber) that clears up after a few moments
*Bubbles in the filler neck during idle
* Loss/consumption of coolant with no apparent leak
*Temperature spikes during steady driving (due to air in the system)
*boiling noises after shutdown due to localized air pockets and heatsoak.
*plugs wet with coolant
*Positive test for hydrocarbons in your coolant
Below are all the possible symtoms I can think of off-hand. With the possible exception of coolant on your plugs, NONE are definitive by themselves. But the more symptoms you have in combination (I had five)....the more likely that's the cause for the symtoms the OP has posted.
*Sweet smelling steam from the exhaust on cold start-up.
*Coolant stranded in the overflow tank due to loss of vacuum during cool-down. Coolant will eventually overflow and leak onto the ground.
*Stumbling on cold start-up (from coolant in the combustion chamber) that clears up after a few moments
*Bubbles in the filler neck during idle
* Loss/consumption of coolant with no apparent leak
*Temperature spikes during steady driving (due to air in the system)
*boiling noises after shutdown due to localized air pockets and heatsoak.
*plugs wet with coolant
*Positive test for hydrocarbons in your coolant
07-07-09, 06:12 PM
#23
Racecar - Formula 2000
Those flip-release caps are notorious for leaking. After you flip the handle once they often will not seat straight, causing coolant loss and possibly not drawing coolant back to the engine. Get a standard non-release equivalent from any auto parts store.
07-07-09, 06:36 PM
#24
Constant threat
Earlier in the year we gave him all sorts of advice to check and replace the coolant caps, so this is why I assumed this had been done and he was still having problems. If he has done the caps and still having this problem he is for SURE in coolant seal hell.
07-07-09, 08:49 PM
#25
el unico
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....and while in coolant seal hell,buy a bottle of Blue Devil at Autozone or Pep Boys($60) and "seal" it up.Good Luck with the outcome.I tried everything in the book turning my back on coolant seal failure until reality kicked in.