Vacuum, charge control and boost problem?
09-08-04, 03:44 AM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Vacuum, charge control and boost problem?
Hi folks,
Trying to diagnose a boost problem and was wondering if someone could offer a little advice. Concerning the charge control actuator, when I start the car the rod is pulled in with vacuum as expected. When I stop the car the rod is then out again. Should the vacuum tank not keep the rod pulled in once the car is stopped?
I seem to recall reading this somewhere? This is on a '96 Japanese car so I appreciate it is a little different than the early cars.
I put a new turbo pak on a re-built engine and since then Ive been having real problems
I couldnt make more than .5 bar at first, I found the pre-control line to the actuator wasnt great, once I fixed that I made .6 bar but now at transition car goes fluffy and rough, similar to overfueling when tuning and just doesnt pull anymore. Map is very good, AF's are OK, new plugs etc so assuming a boost related issue.
Thanks and rgds
Ant, UK
Trying to diagnose a boost problem and was wondering if someone could offer a little advice. Concerning the charge control actuator, when I start the car the rod is pulled in with vacuum as expected. When I stop the car the rod is then out again. Should the vacuum tank not keep the rod pulled in once the car is stopped?
I seem to recall reading this somewhere? This is on a '96 Japanese car so I appreciate it is a little different than the early cars.
I put a new turbo pak on a re-built engine and since then Ive been having real problems
I couldnt make more than .5 bar at first, I found the pre-control line to the actuator wasnt great, once I fixed that I made .6 bar but now at transition car goes fluffy and rough, similar to overfueling when tuning and just doesnt pull anymore. Map is very good, AF's are OK, new plugs etc so assuming a boost related issue.Thanks and rgds
Ant, UK
09-08-04, 10:23 AM
#2
Originally Posted by db2boy
Hi folks,
Trying to diagnose a boost problem and was wondering if someone could offer a little advice. Concerning the charge control actuator, when I start the car the rod is pulled in with vacuum as expected. When I stop the car the rod is then out again. Should the vacuum tank not keep the rod pulled in once the car is stopped?
I seem to recall reading this somewhere?
Trying to diagnose a boost problem and was wondering if someone could offer a little advice. Concerning the charge control actuator, when I start the car the rod is pulled in with vacuum as expected. When I stop the car the rod is then out again. Should the vacuum tank not keep the rod pulled in once the car is stopped?
I seem to recall reading this somewhere?
The Charge Control Valve controls the transition from Primary to combined Primary and Secondary Turbocharger operation. When ever the pressure applied to both Chambers of the Charge Control Actuator are equal, the spring force of the Charge Control Actuator will open the Charge Control Valve.
Below 4500 RPM this actuator is ON, (actuator rod pulled in), this closes the valve between the Primary and Secondary Turbochargers. This valve seals the air passage the same way as a throttle butterfly valve.
A simple test for the Charge Control Actuator is to start the engine and let it idle, the actuator rod will be pulled in. Stop the engine and remove the hose from Chamber A and the actuator rod will be out.
Below 4500 RPM this actuator is ON, (actuator rod pulled in), this closes the valve between the Primary and Secondary Turbochargers. This valve seals the air passage the same way as a throttle butterfly valve.
A simple test for the Charge Control Actuator is to start the engine and let it idle, the actuator rod will be pulled in. Stop the engine and remove the hose from Chamber A and the actuator rod will be out.
09-08-04, 12:28 PM
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
Hi and thanks,
After further testing this morning, it became aparant the primary turbo must be rather shagged. Pulled it earlier and sure enough it is!
Thanks
Ant
After further testing this morning, it became aparant the primary turbo must be rather shagged. Pulled it earlier and sure enough it is!
Thanks
Ant
09-08-04, 05:42 PM
#4
Full Member
Thread Starter
Mahjik,
Whilst the boost diagnostics is OK for US cars and early European cars, only the basic principals apply for the 96 -> Japanese cars. If anyone needs 96 -> Vac diag please contact me. In my dealings with late FD's over the years not all the rules seem to apply.
Thanks
Ant
Whilst the boost diagnostics is OK for US cars and early European cars, only the basic principals apply for the 96 -> Japanese cars. If anyone needs 96 -> Vac diag please contact me. In my dealings with late FD's over the years not all the rules seem to apply.
Thanks
Ant
09-08-04, 08:42 PM
#5
Originally Posted by db2boy
Mahjik,
Whilst the boost diagnostics is OK for US cars and early European cars, only the basic principals apply for the 96 -> Japanese cars. If anyone needs 96 -> Vac diag please contact me. In my dealings with late FD's over the years not all the rules seem to apply.
Thanks
Ant
Whilst the boost diagnostics is OK for US cars and early European cars, only the basic principals apply for the 96 -> Japanese cars. If anyone needs 96 -> Vac diag please contact me. In my dealings with late FD's over the years not all the rules seem to apply.
Thanks
Ant
09-12-04, 01:17 PM
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
Well Im still trying to get to the bottom of it! I have a 96 car and have swapped the black box over that houses the solenoids, I have checked solenoids and all pipes etc. My primary turbo was damaged and I pulled engine and fixed this. I found the pipe from the primary turbo to the PCNT actuator had a split. This stopped my whistling and helped with boost but has not fixed it.
I see approx .6 bar on the primary, I notice no transition dip and then I see .9 on the secondary (Im set up to run 1.0 on primary and 1.1 on secondary). Both pressure and vacuum tanks are holding pressure/vacuum, all actuators check out with a pump.
I have resorted to the base APEXi map, I have re-init the PFC and gone through the re-learn process. The only thing left I can think of is when I changed turbo packs 6 month ago when I first refreshed the engine I got an early one. This could be significant as I have the late pipes still with no pills but potentially an early primary turbo housing without the restrictors in the nipples. Sods law I ditched the scrap turbo parts without thinking about this
Tomorrow I will build some needle valves to manually control PCNT and WGATE and see if this is it. Does anyone know if I install a boost controller if this overcomes the use of pills or the need for the restrictors on the primary turbo housing nipples?
Rgds
Ant
I see approx .6 bar on the primary, I notice no transition dip and then I see .9 on the secondary (Im set up to run 1.0 on primary and 1.1 on secondary). Both pressure and vacuum tanks are holding pressure/vacuum, all actuators check out with a pump.
I have resorted to the base APEXi map, I have re-init the PFC and gone through the re-learn process. The only thing left I can think of is when I changed turbo packs 6 month ago when I first refreshed the engine I got an early one. This could be significant as I have the late pipes still with no pills but potentially an early primary turbo housing without the restrictors in the nipples. Sods law I ditched the scrap turbo parts without thinking about this
Tomorrow I will build some needle valves to manually control PCNT and WGATE and see if this is it. Does anyone know if I install a boost controller if this overcomes the use of pills or the need for the restrictors on the primary turbo housing nipples?
Rgds
Ant
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09-13-04, 07:44 AM
#8
Full Member
Thread Starter
Folks,
An update for completeness of the thread. I managed to get the hoses with the pills in from a friend who runs a rotary garage - this has cured my problem. So if you swap out the primary turbo housing on a late car to an early housing without the restriction in the nipples you need the early hoses with the restrictor pills, or I assyme a boost controller to overcome this.
Rgds
Ant
P.S. I also had to replace a split hose as mentioned earlier in thread.
An update for completeness of the thread. I managed to get the hoses with the pills in from a friend who runs a rotary garage - this has cured my problem. So if you swap out the primary turbo housing on a late car to an early housing without the restriction in the nipples you need the early hoses with the restrictor pills, or I assyme a boost controller to overcome this.
Rgds
Ant
P.S. I also had to replace a split hose as mentioned earlier in thread.