Turbo Timers and A/f Gauge are not useless!!
05-05-05, 12:16 PM
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Turbo Timers and A/f Gauge are not useless!!
Why do so many people here hate turbo timers?? I always hear people say "you can just drive easy for the last 5 miles or so". The fact that you have to drive it easy for the last few miles is the reason why there are turbo timers. Let's say I have the squirts (which happens more often than not) and I'm rushing home to the throne. I don't have time to "take it easy" the last few miles. I can just park my car in my driveway and let the timer run for a few minutes while I finish my business.
A/F guage:
The A/F guage is not the best tuning device but it's a good monitor. It'll let me know when I start going lean (for whatever reason) so I know I should back off the throttle. I know this saved my many times on my turbo 1st gen.
A/F guage:
The A/F guage is not the best tuning device but it's a good monitor. It'll let me know when I start going lean (for whatever reason) so I know I should back off the throttle. I know this saved my many times on my turbo 1st gen.
05-05-05, 12:29 PM
#2
Belligerent MoFo
hahahaha.
I have a TT but would I buy it again with what I know now... probably not. Do I use it sometimes, yes, occasionally. I have a 2 hour drive home and if I had too much coffee I will have to **** like a race horse...
I would imagine the A/F gauge is a very poor indicator of when you are running lean unless you can have a reference point determined by a wideband and some 'safe' lean point.
I have a TT but would I buy it again with what I know now... probably not. Do I use it sometimes, yes, occasionally. I have a 2 hour drive home and if I had too much coffee I will have to **** like a race horse...
I would imagine the A/F gauge is a very poor indicator of when you are running lean unless you can have a reference point determined by a wideband and some 'safe' lean point.
Last edited by vchacon; 05-05-05 at 12:39 PM.
05-05-05, 12:40 PM
#3
I won't let go
Originally Posted by vchacon
I would imagine the A/F gauge is a very poor indicator of when you running lean unless you can have a reference point determined by a wideband and some 'safe' lean point.
05-05-05, 01:28 PM
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An A/F meter only indicates on what side of stoiciometric the ratio is. It can indicate "not lean" when it really is. The A/F meter will not warn you when you are too lean beacause even ranges that are richer than stoiciometric are dangerous.
05-05-05, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by web777
Let's say I have the squirts (which happens more often than not) and I'm rushing home to the throne. I don't have time to "take it easy" the last few miles. I can just park my car in my driveway and let the timer run for a few minutes while I finish my business.
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05-05-05, 06:33 PM
#9
Originally Posted by web777
It's all relative. If you see the A/F gauge near stioch you know it's leaning out and you let off the throttle.
05-05-05, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by d0 Luck
true, but then again... these motors run off way richer than pistons do. so 'stoich' would have to be couple pts. higher compared to piston motors; just to be on the "safer" side.
with that in mind, why doesnt somebody make a rotary spec A/F guage based on testing with a 93+ stock FD ECU?
05-05-05, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by spekdah
with that in mind, why doesnt somebody make a rotary spec A/F guage based on testing with a 93+ stock FD ECU?
It's all relative. If you see the A/F gauge near stioch you know it's leaning out and you let off the throttle.
Geez, how many times does this have to be shown? A/F guages relying on the stock narrowband o2 sensor aren't worthless -- they are LESS than worthless. Any one who says different really needs to learn how narrowband sensors work. There is a reason that the ecu doesn't read the o2 sensor under anything but cruise conditions and instead relies on built-in maps. Now what possible reason could that be.....
05-05-05, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by web777
Why do so many people here hate turbo timers?? I always hear people say "you can just drive easy for the last 5 miles or so". The fact that you have to drive it easy for the last few miles is the reason why there are turbo timers. Let's say I have the squirts (which happens more often than not) and I'm rushing home to the throne. I don't have time to "take it easy" the last few miles. I can just park my car in my driveway and let the timer run for a few minutes while I finish my business.
05-05-05, 08:27 PM
#14
Hooray For Boobies!!!
The turbo timer came with my car when I bought it and I have never removed it. They only time I use it is so I can leave the car running (set it for like 5 min) and lock the doors while I run into the nearest fast food joint.
My narrow band 02 was installed by me but before I knew better. Although it did tell me that I was having major fuel problems when my fuel pump went out. It wouls show lean just reving in idle. The car would stall every time you went to move it. Both of those were good indications to me to drive my other ride to work.
I think the narrow band 02 could be slightly useful but really not worth it.
My narrow band 02 was installed by me but before I knew better. Although it did tell me that I was having major fuel problems when my fuel pump went out. It wouls show lean just reving in idle. The car would stall every time you went to move it. Both of those were good indications to me to drive my other ride to work.
I think the narrow band 02 could be slightly useful but really not worth it.
05-05-05, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueRex
People don't hate them. They just aren't needed on a car with water cooled (opposed to oil cooled) turbos.
05-05-05, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rynberg
Geez, how many times does this have to be shown? A/F guages relying on the stock narrowband o2 sensor aren't worthless -- they are LESS than worthless. Any one who says different really needs to learn how narrowband sensors work. There is a reason that the ecu doesn't read the o2 sensor under anything but cruise conditions and instead relies on built-in maps. Now what possible reason could that be.....
05-05-05, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 7_rocket
Turbo timers are only good when you are in a hurry and cant wait a minute or two to let the car cool down
05-05-05, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by technonovice
An A/F meter only indicates on what side of stoiciometric the ratio is. It can indicate "not lean" when it really is. The A/F meter will not warn you when you are too lean beacause even ranges that are richer than stoiciometric are dangerous.
Correct, but if I'm seeing lean on the gauge that still means I'm running lean. WB is obviously better but I think the A/F guage is a good monitor.
05-06-05, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by web777
So... by that logic I can just run it hard and turn off the car??
Water cooled turbos won't benefit from an extended shut down cycle. The point of the cooling turbos before shut off is to prevent the oil from coking. As I stated before this isn't a big problem for water cooled turbos.
Last edited by BlueRex; 05-06-05 at 12:50 AM.
05-06-05, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueRex
Water cooled turbos won't benefit from an extended shut down cycle. The point of the cooling turbos before shut off is to prevent the oil from coking. As I stated before this isn't a big problem for water cooled turbos.
Let me ask you this. So after a hard run do you just shut down the car?
05-06-05, 09:45 AM
#22
Originally Posted by web777
Water cooled turbos have less of a chance of coking but you still need to cool them down.
Let me ask you this. So after a hard run do you just shut down the car?
Let me ask you this. So after a hard run do you just shut down the car?
Originally Posted by Mahjik
Hit Google and use "water cooled turbos coking".
Here's a quick blerb about it:
http://www.sdsefi.com/techair.htm
"High pressure oil from engine feeds the bearing and is drained out the bottom of the housing back into the engine. Some housings are water cooled to prevent coking of oil deposits leading to bearing failure."
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/november04/nerds/
"A major problem that old school turbos had was coking of the oil in the turbos center section. When a run-hard engine was suddenly turned off, the remaining oil in the turbos center section was heated to the carbonization point by heat soak. Because the turbocharger spins at such a high speed, it could also spin after the engine was shut off after a hard pull for several minutes. The turbo would spin during this time while red hot without any lubrication; this was not the greatest thing for the bearings. After many cycles of this sort of abuse, the coked oil would eventually block oil passages within the turbo causing bearing and shaft failure by lack of lubrication. This most common automotive failure mode has been eliminated with water-cooled center sections. On the aftermarket side of things, turbo timers allow the engine to idle after key removal so the rapidly spinning turbine can slow and the internal parts can cool down. This dramatically helps turbo life. Low ash synthetic oils also greatly improve the lifespan of turbos to equal that of the rest of the engine. Contrary to popular myth that synthetic oils are bad for a turbo, the excellent high temperature properties and superior film strength of good synthetic oils are great for a turbo."
Here's a quick blerb about it:
http://www.sdsefi.com/techair.htm
"High pressure oil from engine feeds the bearing and is drained out the bottom of the housing back into the engine. Some housings are water cooled to prevent coking of oil deposits leading to bearing failure."
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/november04/nerds/
"A major problem that old school turbos had was coking of the oil in the turbos center section. When a run-hard engine was suddenly turned off, the remaining oil in the turbos center section was heated to the carbonization point by heat soak. Because the turbocharger spins at such a high speed, it could also spin after the engine was shut off after a hard pull for several minutes. The turbo would spin during this time while red hot without any lubrication; this was not the greatest thing for the bearings. After many cycles of this sort of abuse, the coked oil would eventually block oil passages within the turbo causing bearing and shaft failure by lack of lubrication. This most common automotive failure mode has been eliminated with water-cooled center sections. On the aftermarket side of things, turbo timers allow the engine to idle after key removal so the rapidly spinning turbine can slow and the internal parts can cool down. This dramatically helps turbo life. Low ash synthetic oils also greatly improve the lifespan of turbos to equal that of the rest of the engine. Contrary to popular myth that synthetic oils are bad for a turbo, the excellent high temperature properties and superior film strength of good synthetic oils are great for a turbo."
From another thread....
05-06-05, 09:56 AM
#23
Originally Posted by web777
Why do so many people here hate turbo timers?? I always hear people say "you can just drive easy for the last 5 miles or so". The fact that you have to drive it easy for the last few miles is the reason why there are turbo timers. Let's say I have the squirts (which happens more often than not) and I'm rushing home to the throne. I don't have time to "take it easy" the last few miles. I can just park my car in my driveway and let the timer run for a few minutes while I finish my business.
FWIW, I think anyone who uses synthetich is a great shape regardless, esp. since these turbos are water cooled.
Dave
05-06-05, 01:08 PM
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Thanks for the links! According to this site watercooled turbos are just under the coking threshold BUT Rotaries run hotter and we might be within the threshold. Again, let me ask the question, Do you guys just shut down the motor immediately after pushing it?
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/ls1/turbo/turbo.htm
As for me I will always use the TT, it's cheap insurance.
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/ls1/turbo/turbo.htm
As for me I will always use the TT, it's cheap insurance.