hey man aiite i knw the best way to tune ur car is by getting a power fc...now i dont have that kinda money so i was wondering if there was any OTHER way i could tune my car :S whats the deal with these "upgraded" ecu's?

 

You are better off saving your money and waiting. Get the correct part at the start. If you know the PFC is the best choice for you, wait around till you can find a good deal and get it. Management is not something you want to "cheap out" on. You will want to have some cash saved up for dyno time and a tuner as well. You want to be really careful with this stuff, you can easily do a lot of damage if you make a mistake.

 

Keep your boost at 10psi with a stock ECU.

You can get a rechipped stock ecu and go up to 12 or 13psi. That's cheaper than going with a powerfc.

Next step is a powerfc, and if you want more than 13psi, the supporting fuel and cooling mods. IMHO I would wait and get the powerfc rather than a rechip, but that's my opinion.

Dave

 

Hmm well this helped me alot to, thanks sorry i couldn't help

 

Actually, a rechipped ECU is an excellent option. They are generally tuned safely for a given set of mods or boost level and usually retain the nice part throttle action similar to a stock ECU.

The Power FC, and any standalone for that matter, is a great option for those who want to go beyond the "pre-set" mods that the chipped ECUs IF they have a good tuner or good tuning skills.

Finding a good tuner is not easy... Plus you have to add on the cost of dyno time and the tuner's time to the equation. If you are trying to do it yourself, add on the cost of a wideband $300 and datalogit $300 and whatever other analytical tools you may need - and your time.

 

not to be a jerk .. but ...

if you're a noob, you probably shouldn't be tuning your car. rotaries are a lot more sensitive to a/f than a regular piston engine

a stand-alone ECU is the only way you can tune your own car. ofcourse with a wideband A/F gauge. which already cost 1/2~1/3 price of a PFC

Rom-Tune/Re-chip ECU works, but usually you buy them used and they're setup for another car. its very important to know exactly what they're tuned for. but even so, it won't optimize your car's performance because every car is different..

 

Old thread, but a lot of wisdom still in it:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/pettit-unlimited-vs-m2-116858/

 

bro how am i gonna stop being a noob if im not gonna learn from these discussions :P what abt the S-AFC? any use?

 

i'm sorry bro. you're right. there are lots of piggy back systems you can use to adjust fuel as well. SAFC, HKS AIC, MF2, ..etc. whether its just for hacking your fuel curve or adding additional injectors.

but either way, you'll still need a wideband O2+A/F in order to accurately tune the car. there are tones of readings in the Engine Management forum. just have to be extremely careful if you're practicing with a rotary... be prepared to have extra cash and time on hand for rebuild... just incase..

 

If you want to stay with the stock twins and stock fuel system, I would definitely recommend picking up a chipped ECU (pettit, M2, rx7.com, etc.). They generally sell for $300-$400 used and are already tuned for all the bolt-ons. Most of these chipped ECU's are tuned for up to 14.5 psi of boost, but anything over 13 psi and you are really pushing the stock fuel system. A wideband AFR gauge is a good idea to make sure your engine is getting enough fuel.

With a chipped ECU, bigger IC, intake, & exhaust you should be able to run at a reliable 300+whp.

If you want more than that you will need to look into a standalone ECU such as the Apexi PowerFC as well as upgraded turbos and fuel system.

 

I would suggest a replacement ECU, something like a Pettit or M2, Amemiya might be easier for you to get.

Stick to stuff like normal bolt ons. You will see that a car with normal bolt ons make great power. ~300-315rwhp

When you are more experienced from owning the car and reading you may want to step up to a standalone. The Power FC is the cheapest stand alone for the FD that I know of. Then you will want:

Quality wideband
Fuel pressure gauge
Ignition amplifier
Rewired fuel pump or upgraded to something like a Denso 50mm off a Supra
Have your injectors cleaned and inspected
Dataloggit FC

Lastly and most importantly, rather than just fiddling around you could learn ALOT buy purchasing Chuck Westbrooks notes for tuning the Power FC.

This all over a span of a few years. With this being said, if you have read alot of the good stuff on the forum i.e threads by such people as Jimlab, Dale Clark, Chuck Westbrook, Mahjik, caught up to the previous accumulated knowledge from www.fd3s.net you should be on your way to being a well informed happy FD owner.

 

He has a point though. When tuning a rotary, oops equals a blown engine. That's a pretty steep learning curve. Piston engines can tolerate a little detonation now and then. Your rotary cannot. This is why non-rotary tuners frequently destroy rotaries.

If you have the right measuring tools (EGT, wideband O2 gauge), do a lot of studying and really take your time leaning out the map, it's possible to get a not-too-bad tune together. I've never done it myself, and I suggest you do some reading in the standalone ecu forums where the heavy duty information is.

Dave

 

aiite...btw did i mention i have a single turbo conversion :P this guys selling a chipped ecu...he doesnt knw what it is n stuff so im gonna have to go check it out myself...thanks for ur input guys i guess the main points from this discussion is do a lot o readin n keep a lot o cash handy hehe ill try n work somethin out...

 

you shouldn't be running your car at all with a single turbo and a stock ECU. The stock ECU and stock fuel system can't effectively compensate for the added airflow. I don't even think a reflash or piggy back will do what you need. You're going to need a PowerFC, and keep the car in the garage or out of boost in the meantime.

 

Holy ****!! You're are running a single turbo with a stock ECU? Talk about playing Russian Roulette.

Hope you have some savings for a rebuild if you keep that up.

All of the above discussion around chipped ECUs was for the stock turbo system. If you are running a single turbo then, you probably do need a standalone. I'm not aware of any chipped ECUs designed for a single turbo's fuel needs.

 

It's definitely possible. It would be just a different map loaded. However, none of the USA based rechipped ECU would work. It would have to be something done by the few companies who do custom ECU flashes like Knightsports or RE Amemiya.

ahad,

Given that, I don't recommend it. As just mentioned by gracer, for a single turbo a programmable ECU is the better choice.

 

arrite this comes as a bit of a shock cuz the guy i bought this car from has been runnin it as a single turbo for a while now and ive had this car since dec and i havent had any sorta probs yet...you guys have kinda freaked me out abt this whole ecu deal

 

The issue has to do with the flow rate of the turbos. The stock ECU is programmed for the flow of the stock turbos. Running anything else, most likely is not going to have the same amount of flow which will skew your A/F. i.e. at 10 PSI, a T-78 turbo is going to have much more flow than the stock twins even though the manifold pressure is the same. There for, there is more air thus requiring more fuel.

So, if your single is flowing more air the than the stock twins, the stock ECU won't be able to provide adequate fuel.

 

aiite man the thing is i dont have money for a power fc...any suggestions? :S

 

Mahjik's explanation is spot on.

I jump onto the forums in between work stuff and sometimes only get out half of a thought I was having. Apologies for the excitement but I was a bit surprised.

Who knows - it could be that the ECU was indeed chipped or programmed to work with your single. If boost is set low enough, it might be OK if there is enough fuel and your Air Fuel ratios are Ok through the power/torque band through your RPM range.

How much boost are you running?
What single turbo is it?
Got pics?

 

arite i guess ill dyno the car and see whats goin on....still waitin on some suggestions...cant afford a power fc....

my boost drops down to abt 5psi eventually from 10...its the FC turbo...pics i dont have :S

 

Ah. Yes, I've heard of this done outside the USA quite a bit (FC turbo with the FD stock ECU). I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I've heard it done before. You need to get a wideband O2 sensor and verify your A/F ratio. If the A/F is ok, then you are fine.

 

Oh... a stock FC turbo is relatively small, even compared to the stock FD twins. The stock ECU will probably provide plenty of fuel for that turbo, maybe even too much. The FC turbo is probably a downgrade from the FD twin turbos, in terms of flow capability.

When most FD owners hear "single turbo" they assume it is something larger than the stock twin turbos.

 

yeah cuz my car is running rich....now what i can figure from this discussion is that i shud either stick to the FC turbo or get the twins back and NOT get the T04E turbo which i was abt to buy in a couple o hrs :|

 

Well, depending on what was done to the car, this probably explains your other thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/odd-issue-735520/

Now, considering what has been done to the car, you may be able to get away with using a piggyback ECU and just fine tune what you have. I'm not suggesting that's the best way to go, but it's probably possible.