f2racer

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure my engine is on the way out (the car has the original engine with 109k miles on the clock), so I'm now considering what to do. I'd like to keep it if it's financially feasible, so I'd like to find out how much it will cost to either get a reman installed or for a reputable shop to do a rebuild.

Also, does anybody know of a reputable rotary shop in the Boston area?

Thanks!

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Figure $5k for reman and pull and install. Perhaps another grand or two more depending on what other things need to be replaced when they are in there (coolant, vacuum hoses, engine mounts, perhaps turbos, etc.)

f2racer

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the quick response... I recently (2004) did a full vacuum hose job, replaced the radiator and coolant hoses, and sent the FI to get professionally cleaned. Turbos still spin up and hold boost well. So hopefully I'm looking at just a pull-reman-install. Does that 5k include the core cost on the reman?

Can anybody recommend someone in the metro Boston area to do this?

Thanks!

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Reman is running $2600 with core from Ray at Malloy Mazda. Add another $300-$400 for shipping (both core and reman).

You should search in the regional forums for Boston shops.

Johnsrx7

I had Malloy Mazda put in a brand new engine at the tune of $6300 for the new engine, new clutch, new engine mount, new seals gaskets and such. The car runs better today than brand new.

if you can swing a new engine do it.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

http://rotaryresurrection.com/rotary...er/prices.html

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Eh...I can usually do remove/rebuild/reinstall for under 3 grand very easily, even if the engine has blown seals and needs a rotor and rotor housing.

jpandes

Damn, That's a deal. I wish you were in NORCAL

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

If he were in NORCAL, he would probably have to double his price because of the cost of everything (rent etc.) here .

I think Ivan (local rotary expert here) charges about $6k for a pull, rebuild, and reinstall.

f2racer

iTrader: (1)

Can I ship my car down to you? How long does the whole job usually take?

Thanks!

Rotary4tw

iTrader: (3)

Kevin (Rotary Resurrection) is the man, I'm sure he will get back to you about shipping prices, but I just have to say I'm very satisfied with dealing with him thusfar.

He currently has one of my engines, and is doing some work for me. I shipped it down to him last week, and he has already cracked it, inspected it, sent me pictures, and laid out a course of action for it's prompt return to me.



-Rotary4tw

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

IF you think you want to, you need to set it up with me asap. Work is literally flooding in this week, and very shortly I will cut off taking new jobs for a few weeks until I clear some of it out. As of now, with the current workload I have in front of you, it'd be around 3-4 weeks turnaround.

mwpayne

Hey Kev, sounds like you're up to your *** in alligators.
Want me to put 'Chuckles' on standby?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Yep! I rebuilt my NA Fc engine for less than 500 dollars. Runs perfect and I'm already getting 18mpg in the city with less than 300 miles on the RA seals. You just got to know what the hell your doing.


f2racer your rebuild shouldn't be to expensive since the engine isn't currently blown. Mine Fd is also an original with 103k on it and still runs perfect. The only thing I fear is the condition of the top apex seals, since they get thinner and more brittle with higher mileage. I may open it up and rebuilt it just for the hell of it.

yuichiror

iTrader: (1)

Kevin is great!!! I've never heard anything but glowing praise for him and his work.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Under $3k is a pretty good deal.

Figure that most cars should have these parts replaced. If you've recently done the repair like a clutch then you'll be fine to reuse it. I wouldn't put in a new engine with used plugs no matter what.

Clutch $150-500
Plugs + Wires $75
Vacuum hoses $10-30
Coolant hoses $175 (all new OEM)
Motor mounts ($175/ea at the cheapest for OEM)
Thermostat $10
Oil filter $5
Oil $10
Coolant $5
Gear oil $10
Shifter bushings + rear trans seal $30
Radiator $350-500
Exhaust gaskets $100
Intake gaskets $125
Fuel hose recall kit $85 (this is REALLY a good idea, you get all the injector seals and fuel hoses w/new clamps)
+
+
+

Of course you can save some money here or there depending on the condition of your car. Almost at a complete minimum with heavily discounted pricing you'll end up with $500 worth of extra parts costs. Kevin isn't spending much on parts for the motor or he is doing the labor for practically nothing or all of the above is additional.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Everyone tends to think this for some reason? When I first started out, I made my money off of buying and reselling rx7s. But I had no source for engines, and no money could be made paying 2 grand for a block. I wondered why in the hell it was so expensive, so I gathered some parts price quotes from various sources on the net and sat down to do the math. IT isn't hard folks...

For an FD the very basic required parts (apex seals, coolant seals, gasket kit, oil seals, thermal pellet, front and rear main seal, cornerseal springs) run me right around $800 shipped, which is a wholesale price. Even at retail the pricing wouldnt be more than 15% greater. Calculate in another $50 worth of paint, materials, disposable tools and wear items associated with cleaning and prepping and maybe another $50 worth of electricity and water required for the cleaning procedures, and you see that I get about $500-600 labor for the average rebuild. You generally have 15-20 man-hours in each build from teardown to completion, so my labor comes out to right about $25/hr which is not too bad for this area, and fair to everyone.

The parts cost is a bit less for the earlier models, and therefore the overall costs are a bit less as well...my labor stays pretty much constant.

I see no reason to jack the price up further than that, unless additional parts are used in the build, or additional services are performed like porting, milling of rotors, etc.

Everything listed above is associated with an installation, and is usually what the customer takes care of himself on his end. When I do installs, I advise them of a whole slew of parts that are recommended to replace, but none are required. IF they want them replaced, they bring them or ship them to me, and I install them during the swap (usually for free, provided I already had that section apart anyway). The only things I cover for installation are sealants, coolant, oil and filter. Their old plugs (or a used set I have around here) get used for startup and breakin (it's stupid to put in brand new plugs when you're going to subject them to assembly lubes and oil, possible flooding, etc. that is associated with starting a fresh rebuild) and they are advised to install new ones after breakin.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

He asked how much would it cost to have a reman/rebuild installed in the car.

In my mind when someone asks how much a rebuild installed in a car costs I think they are wanting the bottom line. On top of your basic labor you'll have all the BS time. The time you spend with a customer that a typical service advisor would, that time just reduces your hourly rate. Also I don't think you could R+R and rebuild a motor in 15-20 hrs. I could do remove and replace a motor in a long weekend (15-20hrs) but that is starting with a Reman motor.

I don't think you are a bad guy and I have no beef with you so this is just all math to me. If I brought you a 109K mile original FD would I walk out with a quality rebuild installed in my car for less than $3k?

You may have more experience with rebuilding motors than I have but I owned 20 FDs and fixed and sold them quite regularly. I know that $3k won't put a motor in a FD with any profit and it might not finish the job. Notice I didn't have any money in there for pulsation damper, injectors, turbos, etc, etc, etc...

Bottom line $3k? NO way...

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Sorry, the prices I gave above are just for the stock engine build itself. FOr install I get another $800 in labor...coolant, oil, and filter are about $25 of that.


THough demanding at times, talking isn't really hard and I dont really consider it work...just a break between the actual work.


I can remove an engine and tear it all the way down in about 6 hours (though I have done it in less). Then the rebuild itself will be about 20 hours, and about another 8 hours to reassemble and reinstall it.

indeed, just math. call parts cost for the basic rebuild and install $1000 (without all the extra, optional maintenance stuff that you posted, and that I recommend, but is not required to get the work done) and 40 hours of labor for it all. My base price for the rebuild and install would be $2300, and if you average out the man hours that puts me making about 30 bucks an hour, which is still quite reasonable and pretty good money for this part of the country.

ask around, I've been doing it for years. You can find bad press on most of the "higher end" companies out there, I challenge you to find anything legitimate against my work. Some may dislike my opinions or ways of going about things, but no one can question my work (from personal experience, anyway).


IF a man made a list of every part that would be *ideal* to replace on a car of this age, you'd have more money than the cost of the car when it was new.

You can't go at things that way...you have to draw a reasonable line somewhere. You have to have someone with intelligence enough to make the judgement calls on what is reuseable and what is not worth taking the chance on. That's where I come in...if I find something rigged up or something that I feel will fail within a year, I tell the customer that it definitely needs replacement. Otherwise I advise them that it would be ideal if they did, but it will ride for a while if the budget does not allow it. We're not building the space shuttle here.

Any idiot can make a long list of the stuff that "should" be replaced at given intervals or during certain other service procedures. Just look at dealerships who yell "you need a new motor" every time you flood an engine or "you need new turbos" every time the boost pattern is incorrect. IT takes someone who knows what they are doing to be able to save the customer money while maintaining reliability and get things to work right again.

Whatever you want to think...I'll keep doing it every week and prove you (and those who think like you) wrong.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Whoa, are we trying to convince this guy to increase his prices?

He has been around long enough and I have heard pretty much nothing negative about his rebuilds that I think it seems unnecessary to question his work unless some actual evidence suggests otherwise.

I suspect in three to five years we will look back at the days of $3k or so rebuilds with tears in our eyes.

Shinobi-X

Yep, 5k +/- is about how much mine added up to. That was the cost of new housings (which were ported), rotors, seal kit, etc., shipping and all the hoses, belts, repairs to the main wiring harness (connectors/contacts), and any odds and ends that needed to be replaced when I installed the motor. I also took the liberty of installing a new clutch, while $800 of the cost covered the entire install with labor.

Depending on what needs to be replaced in your motor the cost will either be higher or lower. This was a few months ago, and I believe the cost of remans went up since. I was actually doing my new motor at a time when there was a shortage of good housings on the remans, so along with big help from Chris (Mr.RX7tt) we had to track some down. My guess is that a built reman would cost a bit more 5k should you run into the worst of situations and have to replace a lot of stuff. With these things, you almost always underestimate the initial cost of a project.

Edit: And don't go after someone who will build your engine quicker than they will take the time to source the right parts and/or work neccessary to put in it. A rushed job for the sake of cutting cost is the worst you can do to the block. Do it once, do it right and make sure whomever you have rebuilding your engine KNOWS what they are doing and is using GOOD parts.

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Any FD with 109k on the original engine is going to need new housings, bearings, seals and probably gaskets. Most likely its going to need the plates lapped and a new oil pump.
Your going to have around $2k in that engine before any labor is tacked on. Add $1000 to pull and reinstall and another $500 to tear down and rebuild the engine and a couple hundred for Misc crap. Looking at closer to $4k and that doesnt include any other parts like new clutch etc..

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

my prices are similar to Kevin's and i am NorCal.


rebuilding an engine shouldn't cost an arm and a leg, most of you guys are just used to forking over limbs when having your cars serviced.

of course having a fresh motor with new internals will cost a bit more and can be done if wanted but the truth is you don't need to have brand new parts to have a reliable strong running engine.

Shinobi-X

I hear what you're saying, but in my case the philosophy stood that it would be quality over cost in ever scenario. There is nothing worse than finishing an engine only to find out a few thousand miles down the line that if you had spent a bit more or someone had payed that attention to detail, that you would not have to be once again trying to figure out whats wrong. There is little price you can pay which exceeds its worth over a peace of mind when it comes to these motors (IMO).