00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

Noticed rattling in neutral and reverse. Twice an instance of me not being able to get in gear at all. Figured it's my bearings. Been garaged since.

Wanting to pay labor only once, figure I might as well do a complete job...which took me several MONTHS to acquire parts for BUT HERE I AM

I have accumulated:
SS Clutch line
ACT Street/Strip kit - comes with throwout and release bearings.
Prolite flywheel
Auto Counterweight & bolts

OEM from Ray:
N315-16-520B - Clutch fork
N315-16-416 - wire ring
R501-17-295A - input shaft front ball bearing
R502-17-283 - input shaft rear "cage" bearing
R501-17-335A - rear (main?) oil seal
1881-11-404A - pilot bearing oil seal (apparently included with ACT also)
H501-17-103 - clutch housing oil seal


Now that I've come this far I am thinking I should do my master and slave cylinder as well.. whats another 200$.

Is there anything else you would recommend changing/replacing during this job?

Thanks!

deanofay

You could buy rebuild kits for the master and slave cylinders much cheaper than new ones. I believe they are around $20. Something to think about.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the rear main seal for the engine isn't on that list, i think its 1668-10-556A (been a while), and you might as well do the rear stationary gear o ring, which is 0813-10-555?

CrimsonPride

iTrader: (11)

No reason to do clutch master or slave cyl now unless there giving you problems. They can be easily accessed with the trans in the car if need be.

R502-17-283 - input shaft rear "cage" bearing, IIRC the main shaft has to come out of the trans case to replace this which means near complete disassembly of the trans.

There could be other problems in the trans causing you to not be able to get into gear like wear of 1/2 hub and sleeve, wear in the 1/2 shift fork, etc.

So, if it's more than just a clutch job it may end up being a trans rebuild also. On a clutch job I would also replace the input shaft pilot bearing that presses into the flywheel.

CrimsonPride

iTrader: (11)

I went back and looked. Main shaft doesn't have to come out of the main case but the countergear does which will mean the tail section has to come off as well as the bellhousing. A good bit of disassembly but not as much as I was thinking.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Agree on the rear main and 'O' ring...pretty cheap and easy. And leaving the master and slave alone unless they're giving you trouble. But you could also re-torque engine tension bolts.
If it's getting close to being due for a change, I thought it was a lot easier to access the fuel filter with the transmission/PPF/driveshaft out of the car. FWIW, last winter I used the opportunity to do some minor re-wrap of the transmission harness while the transmission was out.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

The rear stationary gear O-ring is worth replacing IF IT'S LEAKING. If not, LEAVE IT BE.

Reason is the stationary gear is what times the rotor position. If you don't have the rotors in a good "rest" position the rear rotor can slip out of place on the eccentric shaft. If that happens, you'll probably need to pull the motor apart.

I've done it ONCE, and when I did I pulled the engine and did it with the engine on a stand pointing nose-down. We were also replacing turbos and fixing a leaking oil pan, it just saved a ton of time to do it out of the car.

I've never done it in the car, frankly I'd be real nervous to do it. Unless someone has a sure-fire trick.

Not to mention it's not a common leak. When it does leak it's moreso time that gets to the seal, like having an original Mazda engine and 100,000+ miles.

Clutch master and slave are easy to do at any time, jack up the car, remove pan under transmission and starter for access. That's about all the disassembly that requires.

Slave/master rebuild kits have never worked for me, I've tried them on my FC back in the day. New parts are the only way to go. It just sucks going through the whole remove/install process and bleeding the hydraulics to find out it ain't working and have to take the whole thing apart and re-bleed.

Dale

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

no trick needed, just don't turn the engine. i've done ~100 or so on the car, with no problems at all. its a really common leak on the FD, but yeah you need more than 60k on the engine.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Good to know! I've always heard the "don't do it you could alter rotor timing" and I think it's an old wives tale. Experience > old wives tale

I done learned me something today!

Dale

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

you could screw something up, but only if you try to move the e shaft, and the engine only goes one way, so if you move the eshaft, the whole thing needs to come apart

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

Awesome thanks everyone for the replies! Sorry about my late response..

From all the replies i will hold off on the master/slave cyls and replace them myself if need be. Great to know its not a tough job!

Definitely understand it could be worse than the clutch job, and if it comes to that, so be it...

I am hoping the shop will let me know how bad it is once they start switching out some of the bearings. (you'd be able to tell something, right? esp if they have to remove the bell housing for the input shaft bearing.)

ah ha, thanks. I wasn't sure if what I had labeled as "rear seal" was the rear main seal---definitely adding that! as well as the stationary given the replies.



LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING HER OUT OF THE GARAGE!!

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

The ACT clutch kits we sell come with the pilot bearing and seal.

We have brand new clutch master and slave for a lot less then $200, around $133.50 for the pair.

Clutch Hydraulics (93+ RX-7)

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

Nice! I will get the cylinders from you if I end up needing them -- I purchased the ACT kit last summer actually elsewhere.

After repairs, next on my list will be the crossmember and diff brace, I am a fan of banzai

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Beware of fake ACT clutch kits, that do not have an ACT clutch disc. There are "stores" that sell a kit that has the ACT pressure plate, but a $19 ebay disc, the authentic kits have an ACT disc, which will have yellow springs and be clearly marked "ACT"

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Since you're there and the tranny will be out, I'd add some DEI Floor and Tunnel shield to the underside of the transmission tunnel. This will help keep heat out of the cabin.

https://www.designengineering.com//c...und-insulation

CrimsonPride

iTrader: (11)

They'll have a lot disassembled. Basically everything but the main (output) shaft itself so they should be able to tell about the shift rods and forks and see how the hubs and sleeves are and I would think they could assess the synchro ring wear by measuring the clearances. They should be able to uncover any problems in the trans. if you have that "cage" output shaft pilot replaced given the disassembly required for its replacement.

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

Great suggestion, this i think I will do!

Cool, thanks!


I have been thinking a lot about the rebuild thing, I think it may come to that (just expecting the worst). But I would definitely rather get it done now than have an almost-dead trans for a limited time.

CrimsonPride

iTrader: (11)

Could be worth it to look for a good used unit as $200-350 is normal for local pickup on one. SoCal should be good area to look. That bearing in question can tend to go at a fairly low mileage in many cases so that could still be a potential issue but the other parts: synchros, bearings, hubs and sleeves, etc. are expensive IMO even from Ray at Malloy.

For example about three years ago I rebuilt mine and had to replace the 1/2 hub and sleeve. That part alone was $200. If you have trouble shifting into both of two gears directly across from each other, i.e. 1 and 2, 3 and 4 a hub and sleeve is a real possibility if you have a lot of miles on the car. I don't think these have to be replaced in that many rebuilds but you did mention in the OP that you had some trouble at times getting into gear. 1/2 hub and sleeve was the main problem with my trans even though my car is low mileage. It had the 1/2 problem from the TSB applicable only to very early production cars.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

FWIW,
I had comprehensive rebuild on my transmission a year ago. All new synchros, bearings forks etc. In the Midwest that ran ~$1200. Parts were sourced from Ray after the shop said that most parts couldn't be sourced through normal suppliers...at what presumably would have been somewhat lower cost.
Here in the mid-west I felt and still feel that was the best option, since used transmissions can be 'iffy' and shipping costs significant. And most transmissions I saw FS were 'JDM' and I preferred to stay with the taller NADM 5th. Plus I'm old and was removing/replacing it myself and didn't want to do it multiple times if I could avoid it. If you can deal with someone reliable and get a solid used one while avoiding shipping...changes the equation.

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

yeah Sgtblue I believed I PM'd you about that out of curiosity a while back.

crimson,
my shifting issue was weird. Car would start fine, drive fine, drive and shift for a while just fine, then i'd come to a stop--red light or something---and i'd be stuck in neutral. As if me pushing the clutch pedal down wasn't doing anything. So I'd sit and wait and keep trying, then eventually everything would just go back to normal. Very strange. This only happened twice, and both times on different occasions, and never re-occured on the same driving occasion.

one thing I didnt test, and can't since I havent been driving the car, is if I could shift with the engine off. I believe that was a good test for a certain part going bad (but I can't recall which right now)

Most of my diagnosing was done via searches in this forum. My rattling was symptomatic of bad bearings so I figured I'd just do a whole clutch job and go from there.

CrimsonPride

iTrader: (11)

I had the stuck in neutral thing too. I couldn't shift into 1st or 2nd unless I put it in 3rd, let out clutch and moved a little and then tried 1st. This was infrequent until one day I was locked out of 1st and 2nd on more stops than not. Never happened cold.

If it happens again you could see if 3rd is accessible. If it is and after shifting into it you still can't get into 1 or 2 it could help the mechanics to know that. They could pay special attention to the parts common to 1st and 2nd: 1/2 hub and sleeve, shift fork, and rod. If they know at those times it's an issue with 1, or 1 and 2, or shift into any gear at all it may help them. But none of that stuff is too much more labor given the bearings you are prepared to have replaced.

The test above that you mentioned with the car off and won't go into gear probably means it's more than just synchro ring wear and more like the parts I just mentioned.

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

When I was stuck, no gears, incl reverse, were 'get-in-able'.

Stationary gear and main seal came in from Ray so soon she will be sitting at Lucky 7 (rx shop in LA area)! I will update this once I know what the story is............

oppa637

iTrader: (6)

Does this look like a fake or authentic act clutch?

00SPEC

iTrader: (9)

^ looks similar to mine.

Though I have decided to go with oem replacement exedy as the ACT clutch is a bit overkill for my foreseeable goals. Stock replacement kit ~275$ to my door!

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Look for a stamped emblem. I can tell you that it is an old kit, all the ZX3-**** kits were replaced over a year ago with ZX6-**** that come with the Monoloc wedge collar. Honestly it looks like someone swapped it for a stock disc, or one of the ebay ones.

Here is an authentic ZX3-HDSS we installed in 2012



Here is a real disc from 2008



2014