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Old 06-21-18, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Testrun
...The PFC will also handle the ambient temp.


And I’m not sure monitoring coolant AND oil temps has much value on a street car...unless you have a gauge fetish.


Last edited by Sgtblue; 06-21-18 at 11:14 AM.
Old 06-21-18, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Testrun
I

For the hood I am still ooking at the Seibon KS. It appears to have the vents in a nice location for the IC. Anyone have any idea where exactly the vents are located?
I've got the Seibon KS hood, and the main vents are towards the back of the V-mount intercooler, but before the alternator... the rear vents are around the ABS and MC reservoir respectively. It's a nicely finished hood, and firs reasonably well for an aftermarket hood, but not OEM by any means. The vents do work, because when I've leaked any fluids at speed, I've seen the exit streaks.
Old 06-21-18, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgtblue



And I’m not sure monitoring coolant AND oil temps has much value on a street car...unless you have a gauge fetish.

well, with all the useful knowledge you've provided you say that!!! J/K!! Of course I need to monitor.
she will be tracked occasionally and I want to take her to the strip a few times.
maybe it is because of my job, but yes I like monitoring gauges lol. I don't have a fetish for them in ny car, but I like to know what is going on with whatever it is mechanically I am operating. Heat kills the rotary, so it would make me feel better to know my parameters
Old 06-21-18, 01:05 PM
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Also, again I just don't trust these gauges. It may just be because my tach is acting up.

all the info out there with all the knowledge from vets and newbie experiments and I still cant find any actual #s posted anywhere. That's why I was looking to add the 2 other air temp gauges
Old 06-21-18, 02:19 PM
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It's hard to argue with boost and water temp gauges in the FD, as long as they're installed nicely. OilT and WaterT trend together. And, you can monitor all those things on a PFC commander.

Maybe skip the gauges and pods, and put that money in a PFC+commander.
Old 06-21-18, 02:38 PM
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I didnt know the PFC measured oil temp. I mean I am sure it monitors, but I didnt know it displays it. That's awesome. By no means do I want to clutter my car with gauges. Can she display pressure? I need to study it a bit more.
Old 06-21-18, 03:42 PM
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Sorry, you can't get OilT on the PFC. But, definitely do some searching.
Old 06-21-18, 04:06 PM
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I just got a pretty serious crash course on it (PFC that is)
Sgt. I get what your saying now. A lot more makes sense. Simple is usually better, but I would still like to see my numbers.... Fault of being a pilot I guess as it is just instinct for me I guess. Anyway, I appreciate all the responses. If I decide to get some actual numbers I will be sure and post them so others can maybe have something a little more solid to look at.
Old 06-24-18, 10:25 PM
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I agree with Sgtblue that many of the thermal changes I am making on my car do not meet cost-benefit for most people. The amount of temperature change that will be seen for all my ceramic coated intake piping and ducting will probably be 3-5 degrees at most since moving air does not pick up heat to any great degree, particularly with increasing velocity. What I will say though, the temperature of the air at the turbo inlet is a much different story. The cooler the air entering the turbo, the cooler the air is even after compression relatively speaking allowing for the heat of compression. There are several factors at play here. First of all, the turbo efficiency is obviously based on its characteristics and its unique turbo compressor map as well as the turbine efficiency including factors such as backpressure and all the A/R ratios, size, etc. Many of us use WMI at the turbos. The reason for this from the articles I have read several years ago is that the evaporative effect of the water and particularly the methanol, which we all know about, cools the air entering the turbo inlet and therefore increasing the ability of the compressor to compress more air. I have read some articles that it is because of less hot air at the margins of the blades, which is the reason. Some articles say it is simply more air in, more air out(denser air in, denser air out). One article stated it shifted the turbo compressor map by 3-4%, increasing efficiency. An thread on this site from 2012 with a post from Liborek (https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-in...-946182/page2/) stated that turbo efficiency can go up by as much as 30%. I don't know exactly why, but most articles I have read believe it works. The ceramic coated downpipe helps backpressure on the turbine side, higher velocity of exhaust leaving. A very high flow cat metal cat, such as the Vibrant 300 cell GESI UHO-Series Catalytic Converter, 3.5" Inlet/Outlet x 4.5" O.D. x 7.5" Overall Length (rated for 500-850HP) really helps the backpressure and moving heat out the exhaust. As you can see, I have done a lot of research on this subject of thermal management through the last 2-3 years with this being just a portion of things I have learned.
All of this, IMO, leads me to believe that most of us through the years, with myself included, have missed one the most important things one can do, allowing for the common mods most of us make with those already described in the above posts, is to bring the coldest intake air possible to the turbo intake inlet. This is for everyone, from the single turbos (big or small) to the remaining twin turbo people like myself. The stock air intake was horrible for thermal efficiency, the '99 front bumper intake helped some but is nearly as bad. IMO, anyone leaving the air intake from a K&N or any other air filter in the engine bay sucking in hot engine and/or radiator air is leaving HP on the table resulting in poorer turbo efficiency, unnecessary turbo stress, and unnecessary increased heat at the turbo, at the intercooler, and then at the engine. The old saying is "garbage in, garbage out." This is why racing cars from Nascar to Indy to even the old Ram air muscle cars of the 1960's to 1970's all had hood scoops or have a large fresh air intake duct in the front of the car or over the top of a rear or mid engine for the coldest air possible. No race car sucks its intake air in from the engine bay or from behind the radiator.
Sorry about the long post. Any thoughts or corrections are appreciated.
Mike
Old 06-25-18, 04:56 AM
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The post is very much appreciated and right on time. Funny as I was spending a ridiculous amount of time the other night staring at my intake and surrounding area thinking how inefficient it is. I have come up with a couple solutions that I will probably make a template for or something in a few weeks and will be asking you everyone's opinions.
thanks for the response.
Old 06-25-18, 08:11 AM
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A ducted stock or modified stock intake is going to pull in cooler air than just a cone filter, but the cone filter is going to be a lot less restrictive.

Cooler inlet air reduces the outlet air. Less restrictive intakes reduce the inlet pressure and drop the pressure ratio across the turbo, which also reduces the outlet air. So it's complicated.
Old 06-25-18, 08:16 AM
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I was actually thinking about moving the radiator overflow (reservoir). I am actually in the air right now and cant remember the exact position of it. Will check when home, making more room to possibly bring in more cool air. Again, I have to figure it out when I see it again. Is this something anyone has done before?
Old 06-25-18, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by arghx
A ducted stock or modified stock intake is going to pull in cooler air than just a cone filter, but the cone filter is going to be a lot less restrictive....
Also some like Pettit shield the intake from radiator air.

Originally Posted by Testrun
I was actually thinking about moving the radiator overflow (reservoir).... Is this something anyone has done before?
No one afaik. You seem inclined to the most complicated
solution. Almost all aftermarket TT intake boxes I’m aware of (including the “cheap bastard” mod of the stock box) source ambient air via the nose of the car from next to the chassis. Plenty of room and you don’t have to relocate anything. I’ve even modded my PFS box for this.

edit: pic (not mine) added...


Last edited by Sgtblue; 06-25-18 at 09:18 AM.
Old 06-25-18, 09:15 AM
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Yes, it would appear I complicate many things in my life
It looks to me as if it takes up a tremendous amount of space and is just something else in the way to get cooler air in. It is pretty blocked up in the front imo. At least on my car. Just a thought. Besides hanging it is isnt a complicated move. Just a hose I think.
Old 06-25-18, 10:56 AM
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Years ago, they did some back to back testing on intakes at PFS (when it was still a Mazda-affiliated race shop). The conclusion was, "Cold air is good, but more air is better." Translation is, that of course you'd prefer cold outside air over warm underhood air, but not if you have to create a restriction to get it or isolate it.
Old 06-25-18, 12:11 PM
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That's why you need both, plenty of cold air. The main problem is how to achieve both. The crowded front of our engine bay and bumper area makes this very difficult to solve. That is why I went with an Autoexe air intake with the aftermarket Abflug front bumper with the large scoop on the top to ram cold air into the bumper area. I again added a PWM controlled 700 cfm fan in the Autoexe air box to force fresh air in even when stopped. The problem with this solution is cost and the time making a custom divider plate for the front bumper. All together this is around $2600-$2800 which doesn't even include painting the new bumper and many hours of labor for the divider plate. Not cheap but very effective.
Mike
Old 06-25-18, 02:11 PM
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Old 06-25-18, 09:40 PM
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So I am back home and actually just got back from a spirited drive. Man I love this thing. My FCs were incredible, but the power delivery on this thing is just a whole different animal. That is still only at 6-7lbs. Anyway, I was checking out the overflow again. Keep in mind I have the single oil cooler. I am going to follow through with my oil temp and pressure gauge. Upgrade the single cooler and see where my temps are at. If they are more than adequate (fingers crossed) I may end up moving the overflow and ducting some air up. The damn overflow blocks the whole damn area where I see air could get in. I don't see how in the hell it couldn't help. I don't see how the hell this thing is suppose to get any adequate cold air unless a different front end is installed. Then I may try to fabricate an aluminum plate with thermal barrier behind the intake tubes to try and block some of the heat. Make a poor bastard 2 I take. I have to look up the poor bastard I take anyway. It will be a very tedious pita job, but again I don't think it can hurt anything. The clamps on the k&n are too hot too touch so the intake air is hot for sure. Again, I promise I am not trying to re invent the wheel here, but I don't see how it couldn't help. It cant hurt anything for sure. Then of course as I am typing this, I remember I live in Miami and probably a 2nd oil cooler would be a better upgrade. Probably without a thermostat. Time will tell. I got this thing to turn some wrenches and have fun so I don't mind taking the time. A vented hood is 99.9% in the future. I think when you cant hold the hood pole (cant think of the proper term) it is just too damn hot under there. Thanks for all the good info so far. I have read back through a lot of other posts. It is amazing the difference of opinions. Thanks everyone.
Old 06-25-18, 10:02 PM
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https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/ram-air-second-oil-cooler-duct-pic-my-setup-164827/

it would appear someone beat me to it long ago lol
Old 06-26-18, 08:49 AM
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It’s a far better trade-off for overall thermal management to have a 2nd oil cooler over an intake there. Lower oil temps trump IATs in importance and also helps water temps as the oil is an engine cooling component in the rotary.
Old 06-26-18, 02:27 PM
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Mazda addressed intake isolation in the 99spec update.

Originally Posted by Smokey The Talon
It’s a far better trade-off for overall thermal management to have a 2nd oil cooler over an intake there. Lower oil temps trump IATs in importance and also helps water temps as the oil is an engine cooling component in the rotary.
​​​​​​​
+1

Last edited by Narfle; 06-26-18 at 02:29 PM.
Old 06-26-18, 02:34 PM
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Again, I am not trying too, but I am a little amazed at how many guys have not taken more steps. Just my opinion. I am new to the FD. I am not new to the rotary or machines that we make go. There are some really good write ups I have found. Some seem like a lot of work for little gain, but if all else is finished... what the hell,? why not. Moving the overflow may not be a bad idea. Guys eliminate airpumps, ac, etc. How much gain do I really get with my airpump removed? I have a lot of other things to mess with right now then the damn overflow
Old 06-26-18, 03:28 PM
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I don’t think you’re wrong in your quest. These things add up. I also have an intake that sources cool air from the front for this very reason, but I pull from beside the radiator because my dual oil coolers, radiator, and intercooler duct get priority.

Think of your temps as a hierarcy of importance. Water temp at the top closely followed by oil temps. On this car they’re intertwined as well since oil provides cooling. Then comes intake temps. So I would absolutely pursue lower intake temps, but make sure you’ve maximized the top 2 first. That’s why an oil cooler on the passenger side is the best use of that air.

I think the coolant reservoir hurts airflow out of the passenger oil cooler, but didn’t feel it was worth relocating. I did make vents in the fender liners behind the oil coolers to let air flow thru the cooler better.
Old 06-26-18, 04:06 PM
  #49  
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Sounds like you have your mind made up, so just go for it.

I temporarily opted to use a modified Pettit intake and move the secondary intake (the one on top) further forward and angled down so it wouldn't be blocked by the primary intake.

https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread.../#post12109934

The way to go is a V-mount with the air intake plumbed between the V. I recall someone doing this (zoom-zoom?)

The only way you can really tell if you've made any improvement is to log temps in similar ambient conditions before and after your mod. For me, the mod that has had the most impact on is dual 25 row oil coolers (that is until i get a V-mount )

Last edited by TomU; 06-26-18 at 04:08 PM.
Old 06-26-18, 04:15 PM
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Thx. No, my mind isnt made up 100%. It will depend on how I am feeling when I get around to it. Again, I have many more things to worry about before that. I am going to do some temp logs though. All the searching and I still haven't found any real info so it will be cool to see the little things here and there. Something my 12yr old son may like to get involved in as he is starting to take an interest in cars!!! I fear for the new generation. LOL.


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