oorx7

iTrader: (2)

In the secondary fuel rail there seems to be a fuel temp senser. I have been looking at various after market fuel systems, and it seem that there are not any provisions for this on there fuel rails.

1. Is this a necessary senser to keep?

2.Is there any advantage to keeping it?

3.What would be the disadvantage from deleting it from the system?

Thanks, in advance to anyone that has any insight into this.
~Brandon

Railgun

No, no and none?

I haven't had mine for some time. The ECU can make some adjustments based on the temp, but I can't see the fuel temp changing THAT much that it would become necessary or make that much of a difference.

I've had mine in very hot days and very cold and never had any issues so...

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

Thanks.

Any one else have any input on this?

mad_7tist

just add this to the pile of "needed stock equipment" that you have laying around your garage.

the fuel does get quite hot and does change density by a decent amount but it is a non issue realy. the sensor is used so the car's stock ecu knows if it wants to activate the FPR solenoid. this cuts vac to the FPR and increses the fp wich is supposed to help fight off hot start issues etc..

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Aftermarket fuel rails have no provision for it, so that should sum it up right there.

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

Well guys, Since I am making my own billet set of primary and secondary rails. I could make it work with my set. I will be machining them from rectangle stock on my CNC. Wich I could leave space enough to tap and reinstall the sensor.

Would I even be able to use this senser with a PFC?

Looks like I won't be using it.
I just wanted to see if there would be a use for it on an aftersystem.


These are the fuel rails that I make for the 350z.

KMAR

Those fuel rails are gorgeous! Nice job.
You have your own CNC mill? What kind? I used to work as a machinist for about 3 years and still find this stuff interesting, miss it some times.
Other than gawking at the pics, I don't know about that temp. sensor that mazda uses. I work with diesel fuel systems www.westport.com and we don't seem to have too much sensitivity with the fuel temps, except for the LNG we use.
Could our cars get warm enough to boil what is left in the fuel rail when sitting? If so, the temp sensor isn't going help much, unless as stated above it tells the computer to up the fuel pressure to purge the line?
later.

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

Thanks alot!


I use a Hurco BMC 30 ht/m and a Fadel VMC 2216. I use Mastercam X for all my desighning and programing.

Here is another peice that I have been working on for the Z. (This is in the prototype stages though)

KMAR

Again, freakin NICE! Jewelery, I'd want that intake for decoration in the house, Keep the pictures coming. There are a bunch of car nuts at work and I'm showing this to them right now, all I'm getting from them is, "Holly" and "Wow". I like Mastercam, good program, back when I used it, can't remember what version but, it wasn't that great, haven't had a chance to get back into it and use the newer version. Have a friend that is still working where I used to and he uses the latest and greatest and says it works well. Got to love machining it on the computer screen before actually do it for real. So do you test the products you make as well? Oh, and too bad that will be covered up by the rest of the intake system. Ok, got to get to work now. Ha Ha.

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

Your right, it is a shame that it will be covered. Also both the top and bottom sections will be cast aluminum for production. I cut that peice from a solid peice of 6061. We do most of the test our self we have a 600+hp 350z to test on. we did test it on a NA z and unfortunatly it lost powere because of the runners being so short and large. We did the initial desighn to be for forced induction. We are expecting a increase from 25-40 hp.

Here are some pics of the top. Again this is prototype stuff.

OK, I guess I should get back to work also, I do this stuff on the side. www.cj-motorsports.com

Railgun

You can use the sensor with the PFC. There are adjustments you can make based on that input with the datalogit.

Those rails are kick ***. Are you doing anything wiht the primaries or are you only working on secondary rails?

I may look to pick up a set since those are uber sexy.

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

I will be making both. Right now I am making mine to work with RC engineering top feeds. In 1200 (custom for me) and 750. I will only be looking to make some were around 450 hp. I am looking into purchasing a 1600 just for measurement sake. Anyone have one they would like to donate?


So maybe this could be a selling advantage?

GARCO MOTORWORKS

I was told that the ECU can adjust the fuel up to 7 percent by reading the fuel temp sensor .I drilled the rail so that the probe is not in the center of flow but is covered in gas .I made a bung on the lathe and had it welded in place . Easy as that .The system is 7 percent safer than without the sensor .

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

Well I finished the secondary rail today, minus the tapped holes for the temp senser and built in Y to the primary rail.

What do ya think.

Railgun

Nice! Still looking to do a primary?

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

You bet! That should be done this week. Not quite as much work into that one so I saved till last.

I will be selling this in a kit.

1. Primary rail with injectors and fittings.

2. Secondary rail with injectors and fittings.

3. Aeromotive pressure regulater with bracket.

4. Pre crimped and cut to length lines that attach to the stock hard lines.

Not to shure on pricing yet, But I will try to be competitive. Keep in mind this is not made from extruded fuel rail stock. I think that this will come out to be more on the higher end of the scale, as far as price goes. I might offer different versions of the kit also.

carbon man

That's nice work! I am not just bagging you for the sake of it.

A couple of things that I would look at (you don't have to take my advice)
The bolts on the top of the intake bellmouths will affect the intake, (you may find slight dipps in the torque at different rpm ranges and if hex head bolts were not there then there would be a smoother torque output.) I also get frightened having any fasteners in the air intake track that could come loose and fall in.

The other important aspect you should look at is insulating this mass of alloy from heat, both conducted heat from the cylinder heads and heat soak from under the bonnet. (insulation gasket like phenolic of at leat 3/8" for the cylinder heads)
( heat shields to stop the heat from the radiator and exhaust pipes from riseing to the alloy manifold/chamber)

Keep up the good work!

Ian.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I've seen these pieces in person... they're amazingly high quality. My props to ya Brandon! (And I'd listen to Ian btw )

~Ramy

punksterz626

Nice stuff brandon!

adey

Wow, here's an OLD one. 14 year hiatus, this is coming back to life...

I'm debating between the Full Function Engineering FD3s Light (4 port) secondary rail, and the Radium auto version of the same thing.

The Radium has a port for the fuel temp sensor, while the FFE does not.

I'm on an Adaptronic Plug and play.

What have you guys done to mitigate/patch any gap left with the lack of a fuel temp sensor?

And I guess you just leave the harness plug dangling there?? (That might make me cringe ever so slightly)

Thanks in advance!

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I actually swapped from the FFE rails to CJM rails because I wanted to run a FPD again. Being able to add the pulsation damper back was a key factor for me.

Fuel temp wise, I'll be taking a reading but I'll tap into the fuel line for it.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

I'm going with a CJM FPD secondary and a Radium primary with an adapter for the fuel temp sensor

adey

Thanks, guys. Looks like the forward-of-firewall fuel solutions are an oligopoly of CJM, FFE, and Radium. I don't suppose there are any (as-high or higher quality) alternatives, are there?

Sounds like the FPD would be useful to keep, which limits the options to Radium and CJM, since neither the FFE "normal" nor "light" versions have that plug.

Are you guys running stock fuel lines from the pump to the firewall? Or did you make up your own?

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

As far as I'm aware those are the only "quality" rails.

Yeah. Many owners removed their FPD's as fire hazards back in the day, which is/was a legitimate concern with thd old factory unit. I don't think it's an issue with the new rail designs though. The benefits of running a FPD are definitely there though!

I'm running custom lines, I've actually replaced all lines from the tank forward with a mix of AN (PTFE) and new steel hard lines.

adey

I didn't realize the old FPDs were fire hazards!

What diameter hard line did you use? And all AN -8 fittings?

Thanks again!