M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Dave,

I'd be interested in your take on the Schaeffer line of gear lubes that specifically say they are non-corrosive to brass and non-ferrous metals, and enhanced protection for copper.

Just marketing ?

http://www.schaefferoil.com/214_gear_lubricant.html
http://www.schaefferoil.com/267.html

Physical Properties of 267:

http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/267.pdf

:-) neil

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

This is SWEPCO's 301 Performance Chacteristics:

http://www.swepcousa.com/lubesite/lu...3567_201SB.pdf

Performance Properties
Timken OK Load, Lbs. (ASTM D2782).............. 70
Four-Ball Wear, Scar Diameter, MM (ASTM D2783).............................. 0.28
Load Carrying, High Speed Shock Loading (ASTM L-42)
% Gear Tooth Scoring
Ring Drive............................................. ................................0
Ring Coast............................................. ...............................9
Pinion Drive............................................. .............................0
Pinion Coast .................................................. .....................12
Thermal Durability@ 325°F (Stressed ASTM L-37)
Ridging........................................... ............................... None
Spalling.......................................... ................................ None
Varnish........................................... ................................ None
Chemical Corrosion, Axle/Transmission (BTransmission (BT-10) Weight Loss, Mg.
Steel............................................. ......................................0.2
Aluminum.......................................... .................................0.9
Brass............................................. ....................................0.9
Copper Strip Corrosion @212°F ...............................................1a
Seal Compatibility - Volume % Change
Nitrile @ 257°F., 168 Hours............................................. .....2
Polyacrylate @ 257°F., 168 Hours.....................................2.1
Fluroelastomer @ 320°F., 168 Hours....................................0
Foam Test (ASTM D892)
Sequence I .................................................. ......................0/0
Sequence II .................................................. .....................0/0
Sequence III .................................................. ....................0/0
FZG Minimum Pass Stages...................12+
Rust-Preventative Test (ASTM D665)
Method A................................................. ..................... Clean
Method B................................................. ..................... Clean
Demulsifications (ASTM D2711)
Water in Oil, %................................................. ..................0.5
Free Water, ML................................................ ................83.3
Emulsion, ML................................................ .....................0.1

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

By the datasheet, Swepco 201 is a mineral-based industrial gear lubricant with pour point depressant added. So it's kind of a cross between standard industrial gear lubes and automotive rear axle lube. It does not stand out IMHO, especially compared to synthetics.

Schaeffer is another competitor out there. They make only synthetics and synthetic blends. It's hard to say what they're doing better than the rest because their marketing comparisons are done against old mineral oil technologies. Not sure how 214 would work - although it's yellow metal friendly, it claims to be suited for worm drives where you're trying to reduce the friction between a bronze gear and steel pinion. In our transmission you have brass synchros acting as brakes on steel surfaces, and you don't want to reduce that friction. So while it's clearly non-corrosive, it might shift like crap. All that said, it appears to be on par with most of the synthetic gear oils.

I work for an industrial gear reducer manufacturer. We do bearings and gears but don't do synchros, which is why I'm a little reluctant to make hard statements here. To be honest we've never done side-by-side testing of oils in our own drives. I've chatted with the lube engineers at a few major manufacturers (Mobil, Royal Purple, Redline) and based on their recommendations I use a synthetic GL-4 like MT-90 or Amsoil MTG in the transmission. Right now I'm running Lightweight Shockproof in my diff. I do not have any scientific data to back up that these are the best; this is only based on dialogue with their tech reps and my gut feel. Aside from this thread I don't spend time on the subject since I feel I don't have a problem when using these lubricants.

In a perfect world we could get a set of synchros that are made with braking surfaces (carbon?) that bite harder to allow the use of synthetics better. But our transmissions are just too old and few for that.

David

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

I'm going to ask my mechanic to check out this thread and see if he has any input. He's been tearing into various transmissions for years, usually race cars so his input could be useful.

Rice,
Is there someplace you'd recommend for having UOAs done?

no_more_rice

I use Blackstone because it's cheap and I'm just looking for the basics, plus I like the layout of their reports, but I've heard Spectra provides a more detailed (and more accurate?) analytical report

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Thanks!

I'll drain the oil in 14k mile car and have the OEM oil analyzed and in about 6 months to a year I'll have the red line oil analyzed in the 36k mile car. I'd expect the redline to look better but if it doesn't then that will definitely clear up all the redline mysteries.

no_more_rice

The S2000 has carbon synchros, and it shifts very nicely. Good thing because you're constanly working the gearbox in that car.