Hey i have been running ideas through my head and am thinking of a twin charged (supercharged and turbocharged fd), i am just wondering if anyone had done it, or has any info...
maybe even a rear mount turbo + supercharger
something unique, and i think it would be extremely helpful considering the lack of low end power

Btw all welding and fabrication is taken care of for the cost of materials

 

I have never seen a twin-charged rotary FD. Though, I have seen a rear-mount turbo LS1 FD. So, I'm sure tossing on a SC wouldn't be much more.

 

basically i am thinking of buying a roots style blower from anoter car and adapting it, although a pain in the *** most likely, as i said welding/fabricating is pretty much free.

i was thinking of a twin screw type supercharger, which was originally supposed to be on the new shelby gt500 mustang, or maybe a 03/04 cobra supercharger for being cost effective

then running a rear mount borg warner or holset turbo similar to a gt4088 or gt4202 in size

although i would probobly never need that much power

 

i would just port the motor throw on a gt55r turbo and call it a day.

 

I have this horrible obsession with being different

 

a gt55r is pretty different but. but go for it if you want i would be really cool if you got it to work.

Good luck on project.

 

the only company so far that has made it a success is VW but they had to keep the boost low.

when you think about it you have to build it in parallel; in reference to the SC and TC; they need to be nearly exact CFM otherwise you'll get one feeding off the other and losing power.

then you have to rebuild the engine to handle the kind of boost you want to run; albiet 14psi of boost on a TC/SC is not the same on a twin charged system

it would be an awesome accomplishment but sometimes thinking about it is as far as you get

 

Actually....Lancia had a turbo-supercharged Group B rally car....made 600 ponies from 1.5 liters if memory serves....

 

I think a centrifugal supercharger would be much easier to adapt because you won't have to fab the intake manifold. You could simply run a belt-driven centrifugal sc under the hood and a turbo wherever and plumb them both into the intercooler. Or, you could plumb the output of the supercharger into the air inlet of the compressor on the turbo like the VW twincharger setup. Thoughts?



Either way, even with the setup above, I think a centrifugal supercharger would simplify things. I like this project!

 

I know somebody who might be willing to share some knowledge irt this idea... Four or five years back there was a company in S. Carolina (Quest Engineering) who recieved a contract from GM to develop these things (they called them Compound Chargers) en-mass for a more "European" approach to fuel economy/emissions without sacrificing power...

My uncle was pretty much the lead engineer on the project. I've been stupid busy with my job in the military since then though, and haven't really kept in touch all that well =\ Not to mention he's since left the company and is doing other things in the motorsports world.

I'd be willing to find his current e-mail and push the idea his way, though I'm thinking the R&D will end up being the hard/expensive part.

 

a roots style blower is way more responsive than centrifugal s/c's. i had both on my v8 tundra. night and day differance. they made close to the same power(torque wise) but the roots produced it about 250-300 rpm sooner than the centrifugal. plus the roots is what will make your project more unique if you think about it.

 

The problem with a centrifugal supercharger is that the turbine must spin at very high speeds (up to 120,000 rpm) in order to generate meaningful boost. This requires a gearing step-up of some sort, because obviously you won't be able to fit a pulley setup big enough to multiply the engine rpm to the turbine shaft rpm. Also, that step-up will require some torque to get up to speed, and the rotary-- especially with all that hardware blocking the intake path-- isn't known for its torque.

There's a company in Denmark called Rotrex that markets centrifugal superchargers using a patented roller traction drive mechanism that eliminates much of the bulk commonly associated with internal transmission drives on centrifugal superchargers.

Still, the reason for the supercharger is to spool up the turbo, so I think that a roots-type fixed displacement blower would be somewhat simpler to fit onto a system like this, because it generates boost at much lower rpm. The problem with any twin-charge system is controlling the boost levels of both systems to work with each other.

 

Basically i remember seeing a twin charge and nitroused 350z in a magazine once and its where i got the idea

there are a couple ways to go about it. Running them at the same time, supercharger will provide low to mid range power while a big *** turbo kicks in at mid-high end.
Cons on this is while the supercharger is still providing power high end, the turbo could out flow it by far and at this point it is probobly parasitic

or a sequential sc and turbo system where the s/c runs low end until the turbo hits a certain boost and the s/c cuts out while the turbo finishes spooling.

pros on this is at high rpms the s/c isnt dragging on the motor
cons - im pretty sure the setup would be insanely complex especially for a roots style setup and getting it right from a midrange rpm...

i could see a consecutively running centrifugal supercharger and turbo would be the easiest like what TimeMachine, but it sucks when you have an idea your set on (twin screw style run sequentially) and really have no idea how to implement it

 

The ST-1 stands for 'S' supercharger and 'T' turbo and '1' for prototype one. It will feature a 7.0L V8 with an Eaton supercharger and a GT47 turbo which combined puts 1104BHP to the ground and 1430Nm. Trans will be similar to the one in Ford GT. Boost is kept at only 1.3 bar.

 

actually thats similar to the system i was putting down in my head. similar type of supercharger, just a smaller turbo (similar sized to a gt40 or gt4202r)

 

Ls1!!!!!

 

http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=ea

twin charged opel manta, goes like it is on fire,
extreemely clever system
the guy made every component.
check out all the pics/vids
in english:http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=j
http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=ec

 

Hello and welcome to alexdimen's ignore list.

 

have you looked into the camden super chargers that fit on rotaries. there made by atkins. it honestlly wouldn't be that hard of a setup to design and build but getting everything to tune right and not keep poping motors would be the problem. what horsepower numbers are u looking to get out of this setup and thats how i would base the sizes of chargers to run. i would look more into like a to4 turbo there better suited for rotaries in my opinion. but thats just my 2 cents.

 

That's sopunds like alot of work. I would rather opt for a huge snail. Good luck though if you follow through with it.

 

There is so little space underhood that twin charging just wouldn't be practical. Just b/c its 'Unique' doesn't mean its better... I've seen plenty of questionably 'unique' stuff in these forums....

 

Also you mentioned a rear mounted turbo. I wouldnt go this route, rear mounted turbos generally don't work that well. Being so far back the exhaust is cooled and losses its velocity. Heat is what keeps the velocity high to get the turbo really spooling. I looked into them not too long ago for a friend that wanted to turbo his vette. The more I read about people's experiences and the amount of experimenting they had to do just to get them to work decently made them much less attractive.

A roots blower with a large turbo might work fairly well if you could get it all working right. The turbo might lose some of its peak efficiency from the roots being a restriction but if it was large enough that wouldnt matter and the spool would be quicker from the super charger. At some point the roots would just be spinning and the turbo would be out flowing it. How much of a restriction the roots would be at this point is anyones guess.

 

Check out the BEE*R Silvia - this runs a compound charged seup for reasonable power and ultimate response

Check the response:
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJEXp-EKso

 

Epic win:

 

There was someone who accomplished this on a DSM. If you go on dsmtuners.com and search the name Ray Peters, a ton of threads will come up. I don't think he ever perfected it, but he got it to work. Obviously on a FD, it will be much different, but some of the concepts will carry over I'm sure.