So I'm fairly positive that a Wideband O2 sensor is in order for my car. I just wanted to hear what the general consensus is regarding the different brands and kits.

I'm aiming to make my engine as reliable as possible before I go about any more power mods.

All told I'm ok with dropping 4-5k down on upgrading/redoing failpoints (mainly concerned with "Wheel hop")

So yeah, what widebands do you guys use? how do you like them? and does anybody know where I could find a Datalogit??

cheers,

 

I believe the innovative wideband setup that is compatible with the FC dataloggit which goes great with the power FC is a general good idea.

But then again.. I dont have a wideband of a dataloggit.

I am not sure on this part, but I believe this would be all you need if you already have the dataloggit and the power fc.:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=262&page=2

 

so if someone has the power fc and commander with this part can see the afr??
on the screen of the power fc?
can fe also see EGT if connect a sensor?
cuz i was up to get pplx 500 for EGT and AFR monitoring

 

I am under the impression the dataloggit would allow you to fully utilize this controller. however, another member may be able to chime in with proper advice. I am no PowerFC expert to be honest.

 

You can control most of the things in the Power FC with out haveing the datalogit, but you will NOT beable to see the AFR on the controller, the Datalogit has inputs for the Wideband, then you can see it on the Datalogit Software on your laptop.

 

That was my impression. So you can still take advantage of having a wideband with the pfc and commander, but you can do it much better with the dataloggit?

 

Ok wait a tick.. Here is how the three (PFC, Datalogit and Wideband) relate to each other as I understand it...

The PFC is your standard OEM ECU replacement, with the controller you can read and control most all the functions controlled by the PFC.

The Datalogit is a suppliment to the PFC; basically it takes the good things the PFC does, and makes them better/easier to manage. It also comes with software and USB connector so you can display the data on your laptop. It plugs directly into the PFC only and is limited to the data which the PFC already manages.

The Wideband O2 sensor is a completely independent system which allows you to monitor AFRs (one thing the PFC will NOT track, unfortunately), this can work independently (through the direct connection to a gauge) or as a suppliment to the PFC/Datalogit by plugging in to the PFC. This is a seperate device from your standard O2 sensor and requires a secondary bung to be installed to your DP/MP. The problem with plugging this directly to the PFC is that the Commander has no readout for AFRs, so even if the PFC is recieving that info, it does the user no good w/o the Datalogit connection to display...

Am I on the right track?

I've got the PFC/Commander already installed and running fine, just want to get a bit more out of it. I'm planning on running a two sectional project, one being the engine (Wideband/Datalogit) and the the other being the fortification of my drivetrain (wheel hop = bad news if left to its own devices..)

Here's a list of what is already done/fixed on my car (I figured somebody might ask):

PFS AST
Koyo Rad
Greddy SMIC
Intake/DP/hi-flow/Catback
PFC
Defi Boost gauge
Upgraded shocks/struts
Rebuilt 5th gear syncro @ RP
Rebuilt stock turbos

I hold 12-13psi standard and the car feels happy, but I want to be sure. Taking my 7 to a shop for a rebuild in England is NOT what I want to have to do...

 

You're not far off. I have the apexi PFC/Datalogit/Innovative LC-1/XD1 (this allows both tying into the datalogit/PFC as well as independent gauge for constant monitoring)

The datalogit not only makes controlling all the functions of the PFC easier, it also controls functions the commander cannot control (e.g. cooling fans activation temperature, etc.). It also (and perhaps most importantly) is the interface and has the software for logging/saving of your data from the PFC (and other sources such as wideband O2) so that you can tune your car properly.


Sort of. . .It is an independent system, but would be a waste not to tie it into the other electronics if you have them. As I said above, I have it both ways, an independent gauge as well as fully integrated with the datalogit/PFC. You may use a secondary bung, but you don't need to. I use the same one the stock O2 sensor was in. The Innovate system even has an output lead (in addition to the wideband output) that duplicates the original O2 lead if you want to hook it up and still use the O2 feedback loop (I don't do this).
Hope this helps. . .

 

I've got an AEM gauge-type wideband controller: instead of a controller box that you need to hide somewhere, all the control circuitry is built into the gauge. It also has a 0-5V analog output that can be used to connect to any ECU or datalogger.


http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67


I've heard of one person who had problems when using it with his PowerFC, but wiring is always a huge factor in electronics installs so your mileage may vary. Mine works fine but I'm not using it with a PFC. By the way, the response time is much faster than I thought it would be: you can see changes to acceleration enrichment parameter on datalogs.


Any wideband controller is going to be pulling a fair amount of power to heat the O2 sensor, so it's important that you wire it up well. I was recently informed that it's actually better to connect ground directly to the battery, because of the spot-welds holding the chassis together. This is most important on high-frequency stuff, like a wideband controller that switches the O2 heater on and off quickly to maintain the correct temperature.



-s-

 

I run the autometer wideband kit. Similar to the AEM one. Everything is contained in the guage, it also has an output for data logging and another input to sense WOT and log the a/f ratio. It seems very responsive. http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugesearch.aspx

 

There is one option for a wideband signal that you can monitor on your COMMANDER.

The innovative LC-1 has two programmable outputs. You can set the peak voltage for either of these outputs to a maximum of 5volts. This means you can actually have one of the outputs be a 0-1 volt wideband signal. The resolution is much less than a 0-5 volt signal, but it will still be a linear signal.

Let me explain further:

0-5v signal.
The LC-1 is capable of measuring AFRs of 8-22.
The 0 voltage would correspond to an AFR of 8. The 5 volts would correspond to an AFR of 22. So 2.5 volts would equal??? 15AFR. (The middle of the 8-22 range).


0-1volt signal.
Again the LC-1 is capable of measuring AFRs of 8-22.
The 0 voltage would correspond to an AFR of 8. But 1 volt would correspond to an AFR of 22. So in order to read the same 15AFR above, you're looking at .5volts.

Benefits of the 0-1v signal?
Your PFC won't blow up because you fed a 0-5 volt signal to a 1volt input. AND you can actually monitor the voltage in your logs and get corresponding WB values. However chance of getting a reading of .55 instead of .5 due to electrical issues or because your headlights / stereo / cig lighter were on is more likely. That variation of .05volts on a 0-1 volt signal would mean .7AFR.

(Math: AFR range is 22-8=14. Voltage range is 1-0= 1 so the relationship is 14 AFR / 1 volt. .5 volts would be .5 x 14 = 7AFR. .05volts would be .05 x 14 =.7)

So when you are reading 11.5AFR at 13psi and think you have a good tune, you may actually be at 11.5+.7 = 12.2. Not bad but you understand the issue now?

If you had that same voltage issue on a 0-5 volt signal. The .05voltage difference would be .14AFR. Using the example above, the 11.5AFR would then only change to 11.5+.7= 11.64 (not as painful).

(Math: AFR range is 22-8 = 14 voltage range is 5-0 = 5 relationship is 14AFR / 5volts = 2.8AFR / volt .5volt would be .5 x 2.8 = 1.4AFR .05volts would be .05 x 2.8 =.14AFR)

I personally run a M300 with a veisystems gauge. It takes a 0-5 volt signal and makes is read any range you want. 0-10, 20-50, 0-100. If i were to do it again, I'd probably go with the DM5.

So even though it's possible to get a 1 volt Wideband feed into your PFC, don't do it. You won't be able to get accurate measurements if there is the slightest electrical change in your car. Your best option is to go get it tuned at the $300 level that a WB would cost you, or if you are confident in your abilities to not blow up the Keg with twin turbos attached to it. Go buy a wideband. Here are some options with decent prices:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php (hairy install / programmable outputs)
http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm5/afrsmcombo/ (THERE'S A GAUGE!!! and wide/narrowband output)
http://www.plxdevices.com/M-Series_productinfo.htm (BUILT IN DISPLAY!! and wide / narrowband output)
http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67 (THERE's a GAUGE!! and programmable output)


HOPE THIS HELPS

 

So basically the LC-1 is quality, especially when matched to the PFC and a Datalogit?

 

The LC-1 probably does more than anyone will really need it to. I think most people will be satisfied with a PLX unit or an AEM unit (which as a bonus don't require a clusterf#$$ of wiring)

 

I love my techedge. It's been 100% bulletproof since I installed it and hasn't missed a beat. Pics and info here:

Pics: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t=techedge+pic
and
Info: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t=techedge+pic

 

Do you guys know of any site with a comprehensive write up on a quality install?

I've searched through the forums and come upon some posts with very nice cosmetic results and basic explainations. But nothing really gets into the weeds on actually getting these things installed and running well.

Since I moved to England I am more than likely going to do these installs on my own (getting paid $ but spending £ sucks!) and I *really* don't wanna mess it up...

 

I found the following thread to be one of the most informative. . .read the whole thing! It's long.
https://www.rx7club.com/power-fc-forum-47/inovative-wideband-o2-441157/

 

Few things here...

First off, my recommended wideband - Innovate LC-1 with the DB gauge -

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=262&page=1

$289, comes with EVERYTHING. You get a quality accurate wideband, a nice 52mm gauge that is clean and shows your AF reading, and it works perfectly with the Datalogit. Matter of fact, they have a nice PDF on their site on how to set up the Datalogit with the LC-1.

The PowerFC and commander aren't really suitable for tuning by themselves. Good thing is the PFC's base map is damn good, and will cover a lot of basic mods. You can do some minor alterations to the map and to the PFC's settings with the Commander, but that's about it. If you want to REALLY tune your car, you HAVE to have a Datalogit, period.

AF gauge inputs to the Datalogit box, and you can then log that data with a laptop. The Commander will not display AF, period. It's a good idea to have some sort of display in your cabin - it's useful for spot-checking your tune and noticing trends.

Dale

 

Yeah, so I just read through the thread jmadams74 suggested. It was def long, and kinda confusing at times.

I have already ordered the Datalogit, I figure getting that in will be the easy part.

The physical install of the LC-1 seems like the hardest part, programing it is pretty cut and dry (so it seems).

So from reading the thread, and looking at the advertisements (I know, I know..) it seems a bit confusing.

The thread refers to 6 and/or 7 wire LC-1's. However I can't see any part on the innovate site that alludes to multiple wires. Is the 6/7 wire thing just from an earlier version of the LC-1? From what it looks like everything is self contained on the unit being sold now. There is an obvious plug in for the O2 sensor, then two end plugs. I can anly assume one plug is for each output (XD-16 type). Obviously there needs to be an additional branch off for submitting data to the PFC and Datalogit.

Do you actually need to strip out the end of the LC-1 after you get it (the whole 6/7 wire thing) or is what they are selling now a newer, cleaner version of the LC-1?

End thought: Yes. I am def planning on getting the LC-1 and a gauge (DB, XD-16 doesn't make much of a difference to me). I have a month until I get back from Afghanistan and I plan on taking this time to sort all my confusions BEFORE I start drilling holes...

Thanks guys!

 

The LC-1 is VERY easy to install, actually. Instructions are very clear.

Hit up their writeup -

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...c_tutorial.php

It's just power and ground for the wideband, and it has 2 output wires - one for the gauge's signal, and another for the Datalogit, to put it in a nutshell.

BTW, if you need another bung installed in your downpipe, just take it to a muffler shop. I had one installed just before the flange where it meets the cat/midpipe. Took it to the shop, showed them where I wanted the bung welded, dude took it in the back, welded the bung on, drilled the hole out, done, for like $20 while I waited. They even had the bung and a plug for it included in the price. Easy as pie.

Dale

 

+901283091 for TechEdge

http://wbo2.com/home/products.htm

 

I'm using the VEMS WBO2 unit. It's awesome. Fully programable, and includes a EGT meter! Like two in one.
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=AFreshTiny

I'm starting to talk with some other local guys about getting a group by together for it. PM me if you're interested.

 

When your broke like me, you have to look for bargains. I bought the ngk wideband and I have no problems. No one looks at how much replacement sensors are though. Some can range close to $1000!!!! NGK replacement sensors are like $89. Sold! Some people said they don't trust them but who doubts NGK? They been doing this **** for awhile.