View Poll Results: Does adding a front strut tower bar help handling for street driving?
Adding a front strut tower bar will improve handling for street driving
68
77.27%
Adding a front strut tower bar will not improve handling for street driving
20
22.73%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll
Strut tower bar helps handling on the street?? Yes or no??
It Just Feels Right
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 720
Likes: 2
From: Southern Maryland
Originally Posted by clayne
What does a strut tower brace have to do with body roll?
Last edited by mibad; Jul 7, 2006 at 08:05 AM.
WWFSMD
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,035
Likes: 4
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by WVRx7
Personally, my experience is different, but I normally have one on my car for a reason.
-Max
not particularly talented, but somewhat experienced
How much do all those darn braces WEIGH?
Originally Posted by Doc-1
I have the AutoExec brace sets top and bottom. They have them for the towers and the tunnel. Costly but well worth it. Turns like a Mini and runs like a Viper.
http://corksport.com/store/category/...sion_misc.html
http://corksport.com/store/category/...sion_misc.html
Racecar - Formula 2000
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,036
Likes: 371
From: Bath, OH
Another opinion
Originally Posted by maxcooper
My 2 cents:
* You can feel the difference between with-bar and sans-bar on street tires. Mainly beacuse impacts are more harsh with the bar installed. But it also improves feel a bit. Your hands will fatigue faster on bumpy roads with the bar installed. This is my direct personal experience. For anyone who doesn't believe this, try it and see for yourself. I am fairly certain I could pass a double-blind test.
* You can feel the difference between with-bar and sans-bar on street tires. Mainly beacuse impacts are more harsh with the bar installed. But it also improves feel a bit. Your hands will fatigue faster on bumpy roads with the bar installed. This is my direct personal experience. For anyone who doesn't believe this, try it and see for yourself. I am fairly certain I could pass a double-blind test.
Originally Posted by maxcooper
* I doubt that the bar will improve lap times or make a street car a more capable handler in any significant way. You get more feel, but it makes the car a little stiffer (= less grip). Neither effect is large. I call it a wash.
Originally Posted by maxcooper
* The BMW has a mac-strut suspension. The FD has a double-wishbone suspension. The info in the BMW article do not apply to the FD. Specifically, camber does not change from deflections of the top of the shock on the FD.
Dave
Last edited by DaveW; Jul 25, 2006 at 07:46 AM.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,818
Likes: 656
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
Originally Posted by DaveW
I can feel slightly increased harshness, also. It definitely improves feel. The car seems to respond faster (turns in more quickly).
Agreed, mostly. Added stiffness reduces grip mostly by resisting very small suspension deflections which have the most influence on dynamic footprint loading. Added large-deflection stiffness adds to the roll stiffness at the front and will cause more understeer when loaded in a corner. Whether that is bad or good depends on the situation.
IMO, bracing the strut-tops will result in more stiffness at the upper a-arm mounting points, so a slight benefit in camber-control probably exists.
Dave
Agreed, mostly. Added stiffness reduces grip mostly by resisting very small suspension deflections which have the most influence on dynamic footprint loading. Added large-deflection stiffness adds to the roll stiffness at the front and will cause more understeer when loaded in a corner. Whether that is bad or good depends on the situation.
IMO, bracing the strut-tops will result in more stiffness at the upper a-arm mounting points, so a slight benefit in camber-control probably exists.
Dave
.
Thread Starter
Cheap Bastard
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,368
Likes: 50
From: San Luis Obispo, Ca
I went to an autocross today. Before running, I walked the course twice, and I rode as a passenger 3 times around the track in an earlier run group. Our club allows this, so I was pretty familiar with the course before I drove it for the first time. For my first run, I had the strut tower bar on the car. Handling was pretty neutral. This was an improvement from the last event, when the car had significant understeer. I credit the improvement to swapping in a 93 (bigger) rear sway bar, and running tire pressures of 30f/26r. I removed the bar before my second run. The handling was changed. Steering was much more vague, and the car had more understeer. My time was 1/2 second slower, even though I had driven the course only once already. For most drivers, a second run will be better than the first. I didn't make any significant errors on the 2nd run to account for the slower time. I attempted to put the bar back on for my next run, but the threads had stripped on one of the bolts. I was not able to use it for my final two runs.
I can't explain why the car under-steered without the bar, so I won't try. My conclusion: Having the bar on was a benefit. It provided a noticeable improvement in handling with my setup:
Stock suspension
Toyo T1R street tires. 245/45/16 on stock wheels.
1.6 neg camber front. Pettit long track settings for everything else.
Tire pressure 30 front, 26 rear.
I'm glad that this irrefutable proof can no longer be questioned!!
I can't explain why the car under-steered without the bar, so I won't try. My conclusion: Having the bar on was a benefit. It provided a noticeable improvement in handling with my setup:
Stock suspension
Toyo T1R street tires. 245/45/16 on stock wheels.
1.6 neg camber front. Pettit long track settings for everything else.
Tire pressure 30 front, 26 rear.
I'm glad that this irrefutable proof can no longer be questioned!!
Last edited by adam c; Aug 13, 2006 at 07:47 PM.
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