greg schroeder

hello,

I'm interested in finding a stock or replica stock nose piece for my 1993 as that the original is slightly rippled in appearance. The rest of the car is nearly perfect so I'd really like to fix this.

I'm guessing I'm not the only guy that this ripple look bothers. For those that have replaced this part with the stock nose, does the same ripple look remain with the new part? My car has never been damaged so everything should line up.

FormerPorscheGuy

Check in the parts for sale section or look on ebay.

m_snoby

I would also like to find out more information about this. Is it just the nose skin that is the problem or has the support material under the skin deteriated. For all those that have placed a new STOCK nose back on the FD how difficult is it and any advice you could give.
TIA
Matt

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Let me guess. Your car is black or Montego Blue?

Don't buy used, buy a new nose. It is common for the nose to warp over time, more common with the darker colors. It is just the skin.

A new bumper cover should run $450, with another $400 for paint and R+R.

Jeff
Been there, done that

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

I've got a BB and I'm replacing it with new skin for $410.00 from Malloy Mazda. The painter thinks it's the UV rays. I think it's more of the heat coming off the engine. Could it be the darker color causing the heat of the sun to warp it? I don't park my car outside that much so I don't think it's the sun.

But this begs the question of why the rear bumper doesn't sag.

So I think it's the engine heat during cool down. Why? The engine bay before the DP and fan mods would regularly sees 400-450 deg during heat soak. Now it's more like 200-250 F. Especially when I raise my hood up after a drive and run a shop fan through the nose.

One thing about the new bumper skin: it doesn't have brackets or anything so you have to remove it from the old bumper.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

The engine bay does not get 400-450. Plastic melts at those temps and paint burns. To get an idea of what 400-450 does put some of your favorite parts in the oven at that temp.

The FD engine compartment gets hot, but not that hot.

Scott Ullen (Boeing test dude) put some thermocouples in his engine bay and used a data logger to record temps. IIRC peak temps were 240F ~20 min after shutdown. His car was completely stock.

Rear bumper doesn't sag because it has more "geometry" to hold it up and it attached in a way that doesn't canitlever off the mounts.

I think it is the sun that warps the car, not UV. The paint should stop the UV before it gets to the plastic bumper.

If your bumper cover is shot, lift up on the back of the headlight covers, they will probably break. Buy new ones and get them painted at the same time. If you wait for them to break they can scratch up the fenders and hood when you turn the headlights on.

Jeff

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

The 400-450F numbers came from the big list about 5 years ago. Someone used temp sensitive tapes (the kind for determining brake caliper temps) around the engine bay and recorded these temps so they are what I based my quote on.

I can't verify them as my car is no longer stock or that hot but hey are supported from anecdotal evidence: my Bosch 15 amp relay with its plastic casing (for a 555 IC fan timer) mounted near the cluster of 3 relays proximate the passenger side headlight melted from being in the car for 3 days in the summer. An ABS type inlet duct that I got from Racer Wholesale mounted in the passenger side inlet hole sagged after a few weeks.

The lower temps that I saw were based on a Dakota Digital temp gauge that I have to measure IC temperature (which got as high as 290 degrees on the IC inlet side, 299 being the limit of this gauge).

I can't verify the cantilever theory but doubt it highly b/c the bumper reinforcement has two bolts from the bottom that are used for the license plate bracket. These support the bumper from being a pure cantilever; also the plastic frame with those 3 clips in the nose of the car supports the skin.

Regardless of what caused the dimples, I'm going to reinforce my bumper with either a sheet metal plate or just fill that area with expanding styrofoam in a bottle. More likely foam.

m_snoby

Interesting discussion. I enjoy these type of discussions on the forum. A couple of quick questions, Have any of you actually replaced the nose yourself or have you had others do it for you? Basically asking so I know whether it is difficult to align things or if it takes a professional to do that.

Interesting point about the head light covers, I don't want to test if the plastic is getting brittal, however the paint (clear coat) is cracking terribly there.

Oh and yes it is MB color.

Thanks guys
Matt

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I've been on the big list for quite some time too, still am actually. Anyway becareful what you read, how you repeat the "data". 450F in the engine compartment with heat sensitive tape is MUCH different than 450F engine compartment temps. Some components in the engine compartment gets to ~1500F, does that imply that is the temp in the engine compartment? No.

Your 290 F temps are intake temps, not the temps over the engine compartment.

Since the damage occurs from outside in, I don't think the foam is going to help you.

You ABS duct probabaly softens enough to put a hole in it around 250F which isn't really that far off the temps I refered to. Put it in the oven at 250F and let me know what happens to it.

Jeff
Plastic injection molded parts designer

Tad

my hypothesis is that its the bolts holding the piece on that causes the ripples, they are torqued too tight, and pull it in.

just an abservatory guess though

greg schroeder

So, I guess we all agree the wrinkled nose is typical. It probably doesn't mater how these skins gets this way if we only need to be replaced every ten years or so.

Seriously though my car is close to perfect and that nose just simply is old and distorted. It looks like crud. I hate to have a repainted part on my car, but what I'll probably do is remove the skin myself, buy a new one, take both nose pieces to a qualified painter, have the new part painted and then put it back on myself.

One thing for certain, I'm not going to let this car leave my sight, and it sure as heck isn't going to sit in a body shop.

Here's the shop manual nose r and r instructions for those interested in knowing more about the project. It looks pretty simple.



Here's my car with it's crooked old nose. Check out the original tires. I get a kick out of that.

rotary-tt

I replaced mine (black) since it was quite rippled. You have to remove the bumper and drill out the rivits holding on the aluminum braces. The new bumper will not come with these and they are more than $300 new. You can get new rivits from Mazda or PepBoys. Here are the pics when I did mine http://www.adornedmerchandise.com/Mazda/FrontBumper/

I bought new aluminum braces since I wanted to make sure none were bent or sagging - it was probably unnecessary but I was being ****...

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I'd suggest having the body shop to the whole job. Your choice of course but they'll at least need your car when matching the paint. Black is very simple to match. MB isn't.

Here is a pic of a black 93 Touring I had. All original paint on the car except nose and headlight covers for reasons mentioned. 123K miles on this car!

The L. plate was in the wrong position, never put it in front of the air inlet.

Jeff

greg schroeder

thank you so much for all the wonderful information and thought guys/gals?. This forum is fantastic. I really appreciate it.

rotary-tt

$450 new sounds right with a discount. I had my new one painted before I put the aluminum braces on it and attached it to the car. Next time I would suggest putting the aluminum on first as it is easy to scratch the paint putting the aluminum rivits back on (need a soft surface with no dirt on the new bumper). It is very easy to take the bumper off once you take off the lip spoiler, inner fenders, and the headlight covers. There is a piece of foam you have to unstick from the inside of the cover and put onto the new cover.