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Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps

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Old 12-02-09, 10:36 AM
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Exclamation Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps

I dont want to get too deep into this but here is what they look like from the N3A7 ROM..

I've attached the Primary Fuel map, Leading & Trailing Ignition maps.
Attached Thumbnails Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps-mazda_fuel.jpg   Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps-mazda_leading.jpg   Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps-mazda_secondary.jpg  
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Old 12-02-09, 10:39 AM
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Damn man! What are you, some kind of sleepless tinkering junkie?

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Old 12-02-09, 11:04 AM
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you're one to talk ;-)
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Old 12-02-09, 11:05 AM
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Can you upload this in table form? What are you using to dump the chip? and can you explain the units used here
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Old 12-02-09, 11:09 AM
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WOW u has haxed the Motorola chip ?
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Old 12-02-09, 11:24 AM
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Wow!

So the OEM maps are 12 (rpm units) x 14 (load units) so the PFC's 20 x 20 is a finer matrix
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Old 12-02-09, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Julian View Post
So the OEM maps are 12 (rpm units) x 14 (load units) so the PFC's 20 x 20 is a finer matrix
Buy what is 12? 8000rpm? And what is 14? Can't be 10psi because fuel cut is higher.
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Old 12-02-09, 11:50 AM
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I would expect stock maps to go past 8000 rpm; because for years I drove on stock ecu to 8500. I would expect rpm to ~9000 (750 increments); and from x? inches to 13-14 psi?
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Old 12-02-09, 12:03 PM
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^ unlikely it is in psi... even GM does all their turbo speed density maps (GMC Syclone) in kilopascals

is the fuel map a volumetric efficiency table like GM uses? And are there boost modifier tables... again I am pretty familiar with the Syclone setup so I wonder how these compare
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Old 12-02-09, 02:10 PM
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I don't want to to get into it too much because I'm still trying to figure things out (read: learning).

Currently I don't know the scalars but I'm making highly uneducated guesses at the scales (500 - 8000 RPM & -700mmHg to +700mmHg).

At this point, I believe the maps are Load vs. RPM based. There is most likely Throttle vs. RPM maps too (tip-in,etc) but I've yet to locate them.

In conjunction with some help, I've managed to bang out an IDA Pro Processor module to aid in disassembling the firmware from the external memory chips. My goal is to build a reflashable stock "single turbo" ecu but this is a long ways off from where i stand now.
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Old 12-02-09, 04:18 PM
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You will have to get some idea of how load is calculated then. On MAF based systems, it is usually measured airflow divided by rpm or measured airflow divided by some "ideal" airflow.

On the Syclones (MAP based just like the FD), fuel is calculated like this:



BPW = BPC * MAPP * T' * A/F' * VE * F33C * BLM * DFCO * DE * CLT * F77

Where:

BPW = Base Pulse Width

BPC = Base Pulse Constant Term

MAPP = Manifold Pressure Term

T' = Inverse Temperature Term

A/F' = Inverse Air Fuel Ratio Term

VE = Volumetric Efficiency Term

F33C = Battery Voltage Correction Term

BLM = Block Learn Correction Term

DFCO = Decel Fuel Cutoff Term

DE = Decel Enleanment Term

CLT = Closed Loop Correction Term

F77 = Turbo Boost Multiplier

see http://www.nwstp.com/forum/P4_section_9.asp

Factory ECU's are designed to model the engine and its potential for emissions, which explains some of the complication. Here is a list of some of the most important tables in the Syclone ECU: http://www.nwstp.com/forum/chiptable.asp

Here are the two most important fuel tables in the Syclone ECU:



This is the basic volumetric efficiency % vs rpm vs map table. But when the Syclone goes into boost, the boost modifier trim kicks in:



This is a two dimensional table of MAP (kilopascals absolute pressure) vs I believe a volumetric efficiency correction factor. The two tables work together along with all the other corrections. I'll see if I can dig up some stuff on the Honda internal ECU architecture. It may be closer to the FD design than the GM architecture.

Again, can you post those maps in a more readable 2 dimensional table form?
Attached Thumbnails Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps-chip_t13.jpg   Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps-chip_t28.jpg  

Last edited by arghx; 12-02-09 at 04:28 PM. Reason: GM tables
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Old 12-02-09, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by arghx View Post
You will have to get some idea of how load is calculated then. On MAF based systems, it is usually measured airflow divided by rpm or measured airflow divided by some "ideal" airflow.

On the Syclones (MAP based just like the FD), fuel is calculated like this:



BPW = BPC * MAPP * T' * A/F' * VE * F33C * BLM * DFCO * DE * CLT * F77

Where:

BPW = Base Pulse Width

BPC = Base Pulse Constant Term

MAPP = Manifold Pressure Term

T' = Inverse Temperature Term

A/F' = Inverse Air Fuel Ratio Term

VE = Volumetric Efficiency Term

F33C = Battery Voltage Correction Term

BLM = Block Learn Correction Term

DFCO = Decel Fuel Cutoff Term

DE = Decel Enleanment Term

CLT = Closed Loop Correction Term

F77 = Turbo Boost Multiplier

see http://www.nwstp.com/forum/P4_section_9.asp

Factory ECU's are designed to model the engine and its potential for emissions, which explains some of the complication.

Again, can you post those maps in a more readable 2 dimensional table form?


Why do I need to do this again?
Knowing what the numbers mean wont really help. Case & point would be with 90% of the "tuners" out tuning cars probably couldn't tell us how the computer figures up the fuel at the end of the routine but they "know" how to add/subtract fuel in various increments.
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Old 12-02-09, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by hwnd View Post
Why do I need to do this again?
Knowing what the numbers mean wont really help.
If you really want to get some kind of Hondata/Chrome style chipped ECU going, you better do your best to understand how the ECU works. Otherwise you'll end up with nothing more than a Pettit Unlimited style ECU modification, and my understanding is that they just dumped fuel in. Remember that there's injector staging and all sorts of other things going on.

90% of the "tuners" out tuning cars probably couldn't tell us how the computer figures up the fuel at the end of the routine but they "know" how to add/subtract fuel in various increments.
Have you ever done any flash tuning or significant chip tuning? It's not the same as tuning an SAFC or a Power FC or a Haltech. Stock ECU's are very complicated and they put a lot of things in random Hexadecimal type of values or power of two. Only programs like Hondata have managed to simplify them some. The most expensive standalones are still pretty dumbed down. When you reflash an SR20 or KA24 ECU there is an injector constant you have to adjust and all sorts other crap. And timing is even more important... are those degrees BTDC? What are they? Is it on actual RPM or some value from the Ne sensor?

On Karman vortex MAF based ECU's, if you didn't know that the tables were based on Karmann Hz you'd never understand what you were dealing with. Hertz/Karmann signals are not the same as hotwire signals.

check out other sites like romraider.com, pgmfi.org, etc
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Old 12-02-09, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by arghx View Post
Have you ever done any flash tuning or significant chip tuning?
I was smart enough to yank the maps off and identify them :-)


I'm leaving work, when I get home I'll post a few images that might help you better understand where I'm going with this (after dinner of course).
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Old 12-02-09, 05:10 PM
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Old 12-02-09, 07:15 PM
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This might give you a better idea of what I'm doing...
Attached Thumbnails Stock Mazda Fuel & Ignition Maps-water_comp.gif  
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Old 12-02-09, 07:56 PM
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Old 12-02-09, 09:20 PM
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looks like assembly language?
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Old 12-02-09, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kompressorlogic View Post
looks like assembly language?
Yup. Brings back memories of the late '80s!
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Old 12-02-09, 10:05 PM
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8bit (dis)Assembly Motorola baby!

I actually ended up having to write the disassembler plug-in for IDA.. It's loosely based on the 68k series but still remains a private semi-custom Denso chip.

..no hex editing done here. recompile or bust! :-)

Last edited by hwnd; 12-02-09 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 12-02-09, 10:38 PM
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look like nuclear missile codes to me
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Old 12-03-09, 08:01 AM
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To the OP:
The 2nd Gen Ford Probe uses the same micro. and a couple of guys on probetalk have done quite a bit of disassembly on it and are very familiar with it. Look for Mike 94PGT or ASword , they may be able to give some info you might not already have.
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Old 12-03-09, 10:31 AM
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Which processor?

HC11G5 or D8x? ...FD ecu has 3 in it.
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Old 12-03-09, 02:32 PM
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For this project to really move any further.. it'll take an EE to decipher the Denso/Toshiba processor.. My BDM isn't working with the G5 proc.. mfgr isn't really any help either.
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Old 12-03-09, 06:13 PM
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so how about putting those maps in a chart rather than a 3d rendering? I'd like to see the trailing split progression
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