sorry for embarrassing you guys (cracked a seal)
11-20-02, 06:35 PM
#1
sorry for embarrassing you guys (cracked a seal)
I cracked an apex seal this friday.
I was driving the car pretty easy and my boost never gets past 13 psi cause I'm always watching the boost gauge. I have the pettit ecu, mildstreetport, intake, full exhaust, and fuel pump and a full tank of 93 octane. (I know everyone is going to ask for my mods.)
Any way, I'm really upset because I spent all my money having the motor rebuilt 3,500 miles ago. Now I have ideas of me and a friend and a forum member rebuilding the motor.
**I need to know what parts you believe I can reuse and what parts I should definetaly replace no matter what. I have stock 2mm seals in it right now and I am hoping that my turbos, rotors, rotor housings weren't damaged.
The car drives fine just with a rough idle now. A compression test showed that it was probably a crack in the seal and not a blown seal. The car boosts fine still and drives great except for the idle.
I need EXPERT opinions here. I have pmed a few people I thought were experts and haven't had much luck.
Please also leave any helpful advise for rebuilding the motor.
I THANK ALL OF YOU THAT CONTRIBUTE 100% ACCURATE INFO AND ADVISE THUS HELPING ME OUT WITH THE REBUILD AT THIS SAD TIME!!
Snook
I was driving the car pretty easy and my boost never gets past 13 psi cause I'm always watching the boost gauge. I have the pettit ecu, mildstreetport, intake, full exhaust, and fuel pump and a full tank of 93 octane. (I know everyone is going to ask for my mods.)
Any way, I'm really upset because I spent all my money having the motor rebuilt 3,500 miles ago. Now I have ideas of me and a friend and a forum member rebuilding the motor.
**I need to know what parts you believe I can reuse and what parts I should definetaly replace no matter what. I have stock 2mm seals in it right now and I am hoping that my turbos, rotors, rotor housings weren't damaged.
The car drives fine just with a rough idle now. A compression test showed that it was probably a crack in the seal and not a blown seal. The car boosts fine still and drives great except for the idle.
I need EXPERT opinions here. I have pmed a few people I thought were experts and haven't had much luck.
Please also leave any helpful advise for rebuilding the motor.
I THANK ALL OF YOU THAT CONTRIBUTE 100% ACCURATE INFO AND ADVISE THUS HELPING ME OUT WITH THE REBUILD AT THIS SAD TIME!!
Snook
11-20-02, 06:44 PM
#4
Well obviously the car ran lean since that is the only way to hurt the apex seals right?
I am not sure with my setup why the car would run lean. Especially with the way I was driving. All I did was a normal launch from 3000 rpms and then the tires broke loose right away and I shifted into 2nd gear and then 3d and then 4th driving normally at about 3k rpms in all gears. I have done many harder launches before this and have run down the drag strip for 5 runs. I watch the boost and it was just above 10 while I was launching for like 5 feet and it was not cold out it was actually about 75 degrees and just about to get dark.
I am not sure with my setup why the car would run lean. Especially with the way I was driving. All I did was a normal launch from 3000 rpms and then the tires broke loose right away and I shifted into 2nd gear and then 3d and then 4th driving normally at about 3k rpms in all gears. I have done many harder launches before this and have run down the drag strip for 5 runs. I watch the boost and it was just above 10 while I was launching for like 5 feet and it was not cold out it was actually about 75 degrees and just about to get dark.
11-20-02, 06:52 PM
#5
Snook...we can rebuild her...there are enough of us in Gainesville alone to do this task...heck Jack will have his on the road soon.
Several members on the MRCCFL have rebuilt their motors.
Email me and/or get on the MRCCFL yahoo group list (at the www.mrccfl.com homepage)
No track for me tonight...should be at the meeting tomorrow.
11-20-02, 07:03 PM
#6
buy the MAZDA FACTORY WORKSHOP MANUAL and use it measure everything to their specifications. it is not hard to rebuild a rotary engine. you should have a good wide-band o2 sensor meter in the car and egt gauge, if you had invested in these you may have been able stop this before it happened. there might not be much damage the to the rotor housing.
11-20-02, 07:14 PM
#7
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I don't think you will know what you can reuse until you pull the egine and tear it apart. Since the apex seal is only cracked, you might be able to just replace the one seal.
Maybe this is the problem? Not trying to be an ***, but it might be your aggressive tuning and lack of boost control with a full exhaust .
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=midpipe
Maybe this is the problem? Not trying to be an ***, but it might be your aggressive tuning and lack of boost control with a full exhaust .
have no boost controller at all
I ran the lines into the car for the manual boost controller though and I'm going to do that soon so I can run stock boost. The hp loss IS significant. Why does my tuner that has to warranty the work on his motor almost force people to get a midpipe instead of a hfc??
He tells them you have come all this way and now you are going to limit your car with a hfc?? this doesn't make sense.
I know you have 368 hp or whatever you are bragging about in your sig. I personally think you should keep mods to yourself unless a post asks for it. I also know you are famous in magazines or whatever and have heard good things about kd rotary. However, if you blew 5 apex seals and they don't know how to deal with a midpipe maybe you should drive your fast car over here and visit my tuner for a couple hours.
He has rebuilt hundreds of motors and had 3 come back blown but those were drag rotaries. Why would you be satisfied with that much hp if you could easily have more with a midpipe? Is any hp ever enough?
sorry to be an *** this is how I feel
I ran the lines into the car for the manual boost controller though and I'm going to do that soon so I can run stock boost. The hp loss IS significant. Why does my tuner that has to warranty the work on his motor almost force people to get a midpipe instead of a hfc??
He tells them you have come all this way and now you are going to limit your car with a hfc?? this doesn't make sense.
I know you have 368 hp or whatever you are bragging about in your sig. I personally think you should keep mods to yourself unless a post asks for it. I also know you are famous in magazines or whatever and have heard good things about kd rotary. However, if you blew 5 apex seals and they don't know how to deal with a midpipe maybe you should drive your fast car over here and visit my tuner for a couple hours.
He has rebuilt hundreds of motors and had 3 come back blown but those were drag rotaries. Why would you be satisfied with that much hp if you could easily have more with a midpipe? Is any hp ever enough?
sorry to be an *** this is how I feel
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11-20-02, 07:29 PM
#8
Thanks for your help paw140
unfortunately your idea is not helpful and I did have a manual boost controller on and my boost has not gone past 13 psi and will not at even full throttle and has no reason to because I drive it carefully.
You could have just posted the first part of that quote from me.
The rest does not apply it just shows my opinion that a midpipe yields more horsepower.
Thanks everyone
keep the HELPFUL info coming.
Snook
unfortunately your idea is not helpful and I did have a manual boost controller on and my boost has not gone past 13 psi and will not at even full throttle and has no reason to because I drive it carefully.
You could have just posted the first part of that quote from me.
The rest does not apply it just shows my opinion that a midpipe yields more horsepower.
Thanks everyone
keep the HELPFUL info coming.
Snook
11-20-02, 07:49 PM
#10
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When you pull the engine apart, make sure and measure everything and make sure all the dimensions are in spec. IF the seal broke during your 3K launch, it may have been a fluke detonation or maybe something in your rebuild wasn't done correctly. Or maybe one of your apex seals was damaged during previous WOT runs, and just gave up during your mild launch. Its important to determine the root cause so it doesn't happen again, and others can learn from it.
I know you asked only for expert advice, but I'm basing this purely on second hand info and non-rotary experience. I have never actually rebuilt a rotary, but I have lots of experience with other types of engines and things.
I know you asked only for expert advice, but I'm basing this purely on second hand info and non-rotary experience. I have never actually rebuilt a rotary, but I have lots of experience with other types of engines and things.
11-20-02, 08:23 PM
#11
I've seen seals break somewhat spontaneously on 1st and 2nd gens with original Mazda motors under 100K miles (this was 7-10yrs ago). Both cars weren't turbos, so apex seals breaking don't automatically assume that it was because the car ran lean.
I'm not a motor rebuilder here are a few ideas that don't necessarily require the car to run lean to break/crack an apex seal.
I can imagine if the rotor grooves weren't to spec the apex seal could bind up in the rotor and crack it.
Also dirt ingestion, a rogue piece of carbon falling off the rotor or spark plug, etc.
I agree with the don't start or drive the car diagnosis. If the seal is just cracked but in place your rotor and housing are probably OK, once pieces of the seal fall out they will chew the rotor, housing and possibly exhaust side turbine...
Do a compression check and make sure you don't just have a weak spark or something obscure.
Jeff
I'm not a motor rebuilder here are a few ideas that don't necessarily require the car to run lean to break/crack an apex seal.
I can imagine if the rotor grooves weren't to spec the apex seal could bind up in the rotor and crack it.
Also dirt ingestion, a rogue piece of carbon falling off the rotor or spark plug, etc.
I agree with the don't start or drive the car diagnosis. If the seal is just cracked but in place your rotor and housing are probably OK, once pieces of the seal fall out they will chew the rotor, housing and possibly exhaust side turbine...
Do a compression check and make sure you don't just have a weak spark or something obscure.
Jeff
11-20-02, 11:21 PM
#13
I have more fun than you.
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Snook,
Take it apart and bring it to Jeff for ideas. I think he'll help you a bit. As I said before, you may just have to replace the seals all else may be fine but as someone else said you won't know until you pull it apart. I'll help in any way I can if I'm around town.
Sorry to see your car at the body shop this morning. Why is it there? I went by to see how they were faring fitting the new bumper and the Scoot (that one guy hates us you know...started preaching to me about why they stopped making RX-7s).
Also, this may be a sore spot for you but I saw where you mentioned about your tuner insisting on the MP in a previous post. He did that with me too (actually removed my friggin air pump before telling me when it was there for something else and assumed I wanted an MP!) and I told him no, put the **** back and don't touch anything I don't tell him.
I'm not sure what the cause was but I'm pretty annoyed your boy won't fix it for free or a deep deep DEEP discount. He won't be getting any business from me anymore.
Keep in touch on the rebuild. Definitley interested in participating in any way I can.
David
Take it apart and bring it to Jeff for ideas. I think he'll help you a bit. As I said before, you may just have to replace the seals all else may be fine but as someone else said you won't know until you pull it apart. I'll help in any way I can if I'm around town.
Sorry to see your car at the body shop this morning. Why is it there? I went by to see how they were faring fitting the new bumper and the Scoot (that one guy hates us you know...started preaching to me about why they stopped making RX-7s).
Also, this may be a sore spot for you but I saw where you mentioned about your tuner insisting on the MP in a previous post. He did that with me too (actually removed my friggin air pump before telling me when it was there for something else and assumed I wanted an MP!) and I told him no, put the **** back and don't touch anything I don't tell him.
I'm not sure what the cause was but I'm pretty annoyed your boy won't fix it for free or a deep deep DEEP discount. He won't be getting any business from me anymore.
Keep in touch on the rebuild. Definitley interested in participating in any way I can.
David
11-21-02, 01:31 PM
#14
93 R1: your stuff is coming I hope you weren't in a rush to get it...sorry I have been "occupied"
evot23: Hopefully I'll be able to come Thursday night and talk to you in person
rotariesrule: I agree, I just didn't think this would happen to me. It's simple though, when you don't have money you don't have money.
Mr rx-7 tt: I haden't really gotten this reaction from anyone else but I will take your advise unless there is no other way possible.
paw140: I agree, it is most important to find out why it happened and when exactly.
turbojeff: thank you for helping us with more clues.
DavidDeco: I am trying to figure out how I'm going to do this. I believe I will pull the motor when I go home this Wednesday-Sunday?? I'd like to take it to Jeff but how the hell do I get it there? The car is at the body shop to finish getting painted and buffed finally. I figured I would make something positive of this. Yes I know the guy thinks we are retards with these cars. He said they don't last 30,000 miles and I didn't help much in shuting him up. At this point I can't say **** to him. I dunno about the midpipe causing it because I didn't over boost. I am not blaming "my boy" at all but I can say that the "nice guy" price that he gave me since this is a weird situation is really high. I have a couple friends at home that want to help in pulling the motor. If you aren't with your girlfriend "watching a movie" (hahaha) you can come check it out also. I want to make our own rebuild video for rejects like myself trying to do this with EVERY single step shown. Hell maybe I can pay back the people that help me if there are people interested in it.
Snook
bowing down to the rotary gods
evot23: Hopefully I'll be able to come Thursday night and talk to you in person
rotariesrule: I agree, I just didn't think this would happen to me. It's simple though, when you don't have money you don't have money.
Mr rx-7 tt: I haden't really gotten this reaction from anyone else but I will take your advise unless there is no other way possible.
paw140: I agree, it is most important to find out why it happened and when exactly.
turbojeff: thank you for helping us with more clues.
DavidDeco: I am trying to figure out how I'm going to do this. I believe I will pull the motor when I go home this Wednesday-Sunday?? I'd like to take it to Jeff but how the hell do I get it there? The car is at the body shop to finish getting painted and buffed finally. I figured I would make something positive of this. Yes I know the guy thinks we are retards with these cars. He said they don't last 30,000 miles and I didn't help much in shuting him up. At this point I can't say **** to him. I dunno about the midpipe causing it because I didn't over boost. I am not blaming "my boy" at all but I can say that the "nice guy" price that he gave me since this is a weird situation is really high. I have a couple friends at home that want to help in pulling the motor. If you aren't with your girlfriend "watching a movie" (hahaha) you can come check it out also. I want to make our own rebuild video for rejects like myself trying to do this with EVERY single step shown. Hell maybe I can pay back the people that help me if there are people interested in it.
Snook
bowing down to the rotary gods
Last edited by Snook; 11-21-02 at 01:34 PM.
11-21-02, 03:20 PM
#16
Can anyone else post some information or advise?
Like what parts you think I will need and where to get them the cheapest.
Tips on pulling the motor our, rebuilding, putting motor back, what else to replace and such....
THANKS!
I am so confused right now
Like what parts you think I will need and where to get them the cheapest.
Tips on pulling the motor our, rebuilding, putting motor back, what else to replace and such....
THANKS!
I am so confused right now
Last edited by Snook; 11-21-02 at 03:22 PM.
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