viper966

I mean its a fiberglass shell some fiberglass or ABS plastic and some lights, i mean i could probably "Probablu" make them for pretty cheap, just wondering what makes the light kits so expensive

Ef-Dee

Maybe we should all make it ourselves with our own materials!

Yeah, I know what's the deal with the price on those things?! It's a monopoly I tellz ya!

viper966

i would definetly buy the kit from jim though depending on how it loox but i just dont understand why it costs so much

Ef-Dee

Since it's so in demand, and it's like the ONLY kit available, so they jack up the price for two friggin light bulbs and a piece of glass!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Find something that's aftermarket and not a replica/knockoff which isn't expensive.

The FD is not a cheap car to change/upgrade.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Pure simple market economics - it will sell for what the market will bear. If they did not sell at the limited volume that they are produced in, then they would be forced to lower their prices.

Unfortunetly (or fortunetly depending on your POV), the FD aftermarket is miniscule compared to the Civic aftermarket, so companies can not afford to take advantage of economies of scale - meaning the light kits are hand made in small numbers, for a tiny market.

As in any free market excercise, there is an equilibrium that is achieved between how much the companies (and the importers/middleman) can charge and how much the consumer is willing to pay. Considering that the various companies have a hard time keeping the kits in stock for the most part, they would be silly to sell it for less.

coop

So my question is if they sold them for $150 or $200 instead of $900 (or what ever it is) how many of us FDs would purchase them?
I would. But not for $900 (probably not even for $500)
just my $.02
-Dave

black99

It probably costs them 150-200 or over that, for the lights alone, don't ever look to see that price from anyone. just because they are a big business doesn't mean they get things for 50 cents..

The main reason for making something is to make money. And would you put tons of hours into designing and making something only to make a couple bucks off of it?? If you were a company who does these sort of things for a living?? No, You would try to get as much as you can for them..

dclin

iTrader: (4)

There are not enough FDs out there, and too many differences in taste (meaning one may not like one model, but maybe another) for any given company to be able (or want to) make the manufacturing investments to bring the price down to that level. The numbers simply are not there.

Also, to have a light kit for that price level ($150 - $200, I assume your number just for argument's sake) would be near impossible, short of sticking some Roadboy(tm) PepBoys specials mounted with bent metal tabs under some lexan cut with shears...

Not defending them (because I'm certainly not proud of how much I've spent on mine), but its reality.

duckyjp

i remember this. then you would get a shift up in the demand curve initially if you lowered prices, thus changing the equilibrium. or something like that. actually i think it would be a double shift because supply would then go up as more people bought them and they sold in more volume cheaper. Then when the market was saturated demand would go down. I have no idea what I am talking about. SOmeone refresh my memory. Sometimes i wonder why i pay all this money for college if i don't even remember the crap a year later anyway.

DK

iTrader: (5)

Simple economics this and demand curve shifts that, it's easier to explain than these "simple" economics used. So this is what my degree is in (but you don't have to believe me if you don't want to), and duckyjp and dclin slighty nudged the real story behind the costs of the light kits.

Economies of scale

The FD market is small and the lights kits are produced in very small quanities. There simply isn't the market there for these companies to invest money into a mass-production vehicle ("vehicle" means ~"method" in this usage, not "car") to produce these lights. The companies also don't totally have the resources to do such. Imagine the hours and hours of labor and trial and error that Amemiya, C-West, and others went through to produce the final design for the lights ... "R&D costs" if you will. That's some serious undertaking for such small companies. Then you, the US consumer, are paying anywhere from 2-5 middle men's markup on those lights. But a lot of the cost is due to the economies of scale.

Here's an example -- my lights, which I have started. I'm making them on my own for a few reasons, mainly cost and the shitty lighting capability of the available aftermarket sleek lights. I knew I can also make something that looks better than all of those others. They have great lighting capabilites and they've also got real shape to them. The materials to make it might cost me ~$300 total (I couldn't get them again for less than $450, though), another $150 for the bulbs, so $500 for mine. But the time involved in making them is absurd, making brackets, making the edges, filling the donor shape and sanding, cutting lexan and heating it to try to get the right shape, and making sure that they're going to point straight! If someone wanted me to make some, with the hours and hours of labor involved, I couldn't charge less than $2000 (and I haven't finished them, so that's probably conservative ... and I don't value my time that much, so that's on the cheap). But I'd never do that -- it's too much work and people wouldn't understand that and they'd complain about the price -- and you'll never see my lights pictured for that reason. My lights are more sophisticated than those others, I think, but the lesson is the same -- they're all essentially hand-made from trial-and-error, not produced on a large scale.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

The sleek light kit is under production as some of you might know. The housings and brackets are done. Why are sleek light kits so expensive? Sleek lights are expensive because the components are expensive.

Hella 90mm low and high beam: $260
Fiberglass housings: $200
stainless steel brackets: $50
lexan cover wth painted edges: $150
Total: $660
mark up $140
Retail: $800

Sounds reasonable?

Chuck

rtryrktrx7

I'd rather invest in some quality HIDs for $800 bucks. Just my opinion, not my $.02

man_of_steel

well said! time for me to dust of the ol diploma (bachelor of science in Economics) and a few books....

2in2rborex

iTrader: (3)

The housings are looking great, I am desperate to see the final product

jasonsr1

I kind'a like C-west's design

Mister7

Am I the only one that likes the stock pop-up look better than the sleek light look?

neo_omega

I think so

jasonsr1

I kind'a like C-west's design

maxpesce

I Prefer the PopUps also - But want a Lower profile when UP , Like KNIGHTSPORTS 4 headligt style and utilizing the HELLA 90mm Bulbs.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya Max... If/when I change from the stock pop-ups, it will be for another pop-up like the Knight Sports (or something similar should there be anything on the market at that time).

jimlab

Find yourself a picture of an RE Amemiya light kit, and you'll have a picture of the "final product". Chuck is just knocking off someone else's design, not making his own.

And Chuck, while you're in the sharing mood, why don't you share with your prospective customers what they'll have to have cut out of the sheet metal of their car in order to mount this light kit you so masterfully copied.

There's a reason the cost of aftermarket parts is so high... one of those reasons is because you have to recoup your losses before less scrupulous people steal your research and development, copy your design, and then undercut your pricing...

And if you think an aftermarket light kit is expensive, try pricing the OEM Mazda parts which make up the stock lighting assemblies. I'm sure you'll find that the aftermarket kit is a bargain if you ever had to replace the stock lights.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

The housings will be modified so you don't have to cut any metal on the car. It's not an exact copy of the RE amemiya light. I am trying to improve the design and then make it more price friendly.

Don't jump into conclusion assuming the light pattern will be just like the original RE and also how everything mounted. It's not even done yet. I think you should just concentrate on your light project. I want to see how it turns out as well. Of course I won't go to your thread to mad mouth you. I am not that kind of person. Just trying to mind my own business and do my own things.

Chuck

Ef-Dee

Honestly, the stock pop-up headlights is part of the essence that captures the '90's era supercar feel...It's like the only car that has pop-up lights that won't look outdated in the future

rx7even

That's exactly what I have coming out shortly. Here's a preproduction shot. This isnt EXACTLY what they'll look like as I just shoved them in the stock housings and held them up with a fuse cover. I just wanted to get a little idea as to how high they'd pop up and to take pictures to help with designing the brackets. They should pop up a little less than that when done I'm thinking. I'll keep everyone informed as to how they're coming along, but so far so good.