chiminoid

i just bought my 2nd FD a couple days ago
it has a rebuilt engine with about 2800 miles on it but the problem is i can smell feul

any diagnostics or advice on what to check and do ?

thanks alot
chim

FstFD3SPOWER

Do search on FPD..
Its either ur FPD is going bad or bad inj ring.

crazyrx7

I would go with the injector ring. My buddy had the same problem.

R.K.

chiminoid

ok i've been doing some research and possibilities are -

1) feul pulsation dampener
2) injector o-rings
3) new injectors
4) aluminum check valve
5) defective feul pressure regulator

and from what i've found the problem is usually in that order. how much do these things usually cost and what is the labor cost for each of them?

anyone know how i can find out exactly which one it is without going to a shop or mazda dealership?

or if any of you live in San Francisco, can you suggest a competent shop that can diagnost and repair the problem for me ?


thanks
-chim

chiminoid

whoops
for #3 ... i meant bad/leaky injectors

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Check this post, it's has a lot of information about part prices as well as the way to go about figuring out where to start checking:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...ght=fuel+smell

Here are some prices for you:

http://www.mazdatrix.com/c-pulsation.htm

http://www.mazdatrix.com/c-6.htm

http://www.mazdatrix.com/intake.htm

Joker

can't tell until you pull that upper intake manifold, and start the process of deduction.

might as well do a silicone hose job while you're at it

cars are pitas aren't they!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Actually, the first thing is to determine when/where the fuel smell is happening and coming from... Then that will give a good indication on where to begin looking..

Joker

good point...but if the smell is strong, that's tough determine the origin...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yes, it may be hard to tell the origin, but he needs to see if he is getting the smell while the car is idling or only when driving. If it's during driving, only when on boost or even normal cruising... etc...

There is a lot of things he *should* do before tearing the engine apart. Otherwise it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. He might get lucky and find it, or he may go through all that work and be looking in the wrong place.

chiminoid

ok here's the deal

the smell is pretty dam strong and i'm sure it's passenger side (unless the wind is blowing =P)
i can smell it during idle and call me crazy, sometimes less when i'm driving or boosting. but maybe that's cause the wind is pushing it away. when i'm parked after driving, i can definitely smell it and the smell lingers around after i'm done driving it.

for Example: i drove my car for a bit today to check out some security systems and get a haircut. i got home and let the engine idle for a minute or two cause i don't have a turbo timer yet. but anyways, during that time, i could smell feul and as i got out of my car and walked to the door of my house i could smell it also. And just now (about 2 hours after the car was shut off) i went outside to give it a wash and i popped the hood to see if the smell was still there and THERE IS a faint smell. I started her up again and sure enough, the smell was back. once again, i'm pretty sure it's passenger side...

so, where do we go from here ?

-chim

Joker

sniff near the upper intake manifold if it's strong there, then you have injectors or fuel pulsation damper.

not sure about passenger's side. don't know of fuel leaks in that area?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Well, that is going to point towards the Fuel Pulsation Damper or injectors (and the connections to those).

Once you start pulling stuff out, if you look at the parts of the engine (around the injectors and FPD) sometimes leaky fuel will sort of "stain" the metal (sometimes a pinkish color). Once you get in there, that may help determine a little further where you need to go.

But, IMO, you may as well start heading in that directions. I wouldn't bother trying to order parts until you get down there and find out what you need.

Joker

carry a fire extinguisher around just in case

chiminoid

well i'm not too spiffy with mechanics and the rat's nest is too intimidating for me lol
any other engine and i'd probably do it myself but i'm probably going to try to get someone (or a shop) to help me out. i guess no FD driving until it's fixed.

i'm probably going to replace the FPD no matter what, just as a precaution. new OEM injectors are definitely not an option. $275 each is a grip load of $$$$$ !!! hopefully the most i'll have to do is replace the FPD and i'm willing to change out a couple of o-rings.

out of curiousity, what options do i have if the injectors are bad/leaky ?

-chim

Joker

good idea, unless you want to risk an engine room fire.

rx7 store has stock nippondenso primary 550-cc injector pair for $150 or somthing?

bored out 850-cc to 1300-cc nippondenso secondary injector pair are $330; you send in your stock secondaries as cores.

stock fuel rail will work with 1300-cc injectors.

might as well if you plan to upgrade fuel pump, bigger ic core, apexi power fc, dp/hi-flow or mp/catback, plus intake?

check jason's site to be sure

mazdaspeed motorsports development members get the fpd's for $75 or something?

if you haven't done the silicone hose job, now's the time.

thermal flex 10-mm outder diameter hose.

don't recall the inner diameter?

be ready to buy solenoid vacuum nipples.

you'll end up breaking a few getting the hard crusty stock rubber vacuum hoses off

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Usually, it's just the grommets or o-rings on the injectors that need to be replaced. I haven't seen too many stock injectors fail, although I assume you just replace them (with something like that, why take the chance?).

If your mechanic is already down in that area and the FPD isn't the problem, replacing it wouldn't be a bad idea. I imagine at that point, it can't be that much more extra in labor charges. However, not matter which part has the problem, labor is going to be quite a bit.

Also depending on how many total miles are on the car, you might want to think about having your injectors cleaned and flow tested *if* they are going to be removed.

chiminoid

hmmm estimate on labor for FPD replacement and o-ring replacement ?

Mahjik: body has about 78,900 miles on it and the rebuilt engine has about 2,900 or so

chiminoid

did i mention i love you guys ^_-

thanks for all the help so far
-chim

chiminoid

thanks for the advice
not sure if i can afford most of that stuff right now
as for replacing injectors with better ones, i don't think i will.
i'm only gonna be running an intake and downpipe for a while, a good while actually. so i don't think i'm gonna need the extra feul flow.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Honestly, I will be guessing on the labor costs. I've seen people get the FPD changed out for around $650 (parts and labor). Figure the FPD being about $100 of that and the rest being labor.

The o-rings are about $65 and around $25 for grommets.

So, use the original estimate of $650 for the FPD and add in the $65 and $25 and a few extra hours of labor, I would guess you'll be looking around the $900 mark (depending on the mechanic that is, and if you have all that done).

I would suggest you think about having your injectors cleaned and flow tested *if* they have to come out, but that's up to you.

Joker

THIS IS A GOOD IDEA

chiminoid

ANYONE FROM SAN FRANCISCO READING THIS !?!?

HELP ME or SUGGEST SOMEONE OR SOME SHOP WHO CAN !!! =P

chiminoid

common ... bay area people ?

please don't make me drive to concord for m2...

rotorbrain

hey chiminoid, dont sweat the work. . . do it yourself. its VERY easy.

here goes:
remove tb elbow
remove tb/UIM (be very careful with the connections on the underside of the UIM)
remove the ignition coils
remove the rats nest (make sure you label all the hoses first)
remove the ACV
*run a fuel leak test* (you can now see everything easily)
--when i did my test, i saw a 3 in. geyser of fuel spew out of the FPD--
disconnect the fuel lines from the fuel rails and discard
(you can leave the one connecting the pri/sec rails)
remove the fuel injectors from the rails while on the engine. . . its easier that way. (make sure you remove all the electrical connectors first) i had to use a flat-headed screwdriver to prye them up and spray some penetrant down there to aid in the removal. then, a set of channel locks were used to get them the rest of the way out. yeah, theyre in there man!!! haha
once you get the fuel injectors out you can take the fuel rails out. this is very easy. MAKE SURE YOU DONT ALLOW ANYTHING TO FALL INTO THE PORTS!!!!
make sure you take the insulators out of the primary injector ports. theyre "flattened o-rings" that line the walls of the ports to seal the primary fuel rail nipples into the block. mine were torn.
now that you have the rails out you can remove the FPR and FPD with ease. BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO STRIP THE SOFT SCREWS THAT HOLD THEM ON!!!

now, heres the waitful part. call rc engineering and ask them what you need to do as far as sending your injectors in for a cleaning (its about $140.00 total). they will replace the o-rings and nipple caps!!!! you need to order a gasket for the ACV, a new FPD, a set of primary injector insulators, and an o-ring for the FPR (**note: if you dont wish to do this then just dont remove it!!!! i think its worth it while its out, though).

buy a vacc. hose kit from www.hosetechniques.com.

go to ace hardware (or whatever you guys have in CA) and buy 4 hex headed bolts. youre gonna replace the shitty copper (or whatever they are. . . just plain shitty IMO) screws that fasten the FPR and FPD to the fuel rails. very much worth it as you can tighten them with ease and peace of mind knowing that you WONT strip them.

now just reinstall in the opposite order. its simple once you see it with your own eyes.

the removal of the FPR is probably over kill. you dont have to do it. in fact, i have NEVER heard of anyone having a leaky or failed FPR.

have fun,
paul


if i missed anything, guys, just add it in.