redbase

I have been considering the ASP Medium SMIC for my FD, but I have reservations. My car is running very strong with the mods I have and is very reliable. If I add the IC, I'm afraid I will mess that up.

I've been monitoring my injector duties with my PFC, and under WOT the numbers are 74-78%. If I add the IC, I imagine the injector duties will also need to increase to compensate for the additional air flow. This probably means bigger secondaries, or get a different fuel pump.

For those of you out there with upgraded IC, did you also have to upgrade fuel components when you upgraded the IC?

My mods: intake, dp, gutted cat, catback, PFC

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

High duty cycles are not necessarily a bad thing.

When high duty cycles are a bad thing is when you are trying to run higher boost levels than what your injectors can provide. That said, I've seen stock injectors flow for years on various cars running all bolt-ons and 15 PSI. Should you do that? Not necessarily, but I'm just stating to not get all caught up in the duty cycle numbers. There are other important things to consider (like your A/F ratio).

Jonesboro

I think you've answered your own question: you're confused!

I suggest that you do some more study and research to understand the purpose for an IC, the limitations of the stock IC, and the potential benefits of an aftermarket IC.

Furthermore, I suggest that you do some more research on how to safely "open-up" the intake and exhaust streams. I say this because based on your mods, the current pressure restrictions from your stock IC may be the only thing keeping you from creating excessive boost. For example, have you thought about the potential need for a boost controller if you add an aftermarket IC?

Maybe your expressed caution is serving you well in that you realize this isn't just a simple matter of continuing to slap on additional mods. I believe you are at the point that you will benefit more from independent research on your part than just soliciting Internet opinions from others.

Garrett

Do you have a boost controller? If not, get one, you should though with those list of mods.

I just slapped my Pettit Cool Charge III on (same size as M2 Large, better end tanks, includes an elbow and cheaper) and drove. Usually the PFC maps are rich enough to compensate for the more air molecules you will squeeze in by adding an intercooler. The stock fuel system can safely handle 100% duty cycles without failure.

To Jonesboro: The Lecturing is uncalled for. Instead of putting him in his place you should just give him the information he seeks and not patronize him. His post was not stellar but it is conscientious.

Garrett

Jonesboro

Look Garrett, who in the Hell are you to judge me? It's really too bad that you feel so insecure as to attack my post with such immature name calling as "lecturing and patronize".

Did you know that before this member edited his original post he used the word "confused" to describe how he felt? I'd suggest that you reread my post and apologize!

What I did was in fact what you failed to do. I strongly suggested to him that this subject is actually very complex and he should do some more reasearch because he shouldn't expect a complete answer via an Internet post. You have proved my point because your post is woefully oversimplified and incomplete.

Next time before you jump to conclusions, I'd suggest you keep your judgemental, accusatory behavior to yourself and do a little more research before offering advice to others!

matty

no biggie here...get the ic!
This aitn rocket science as some members think.

if u want to run more then 12-13 psi get bigger inj and a fuel pump. If not, then you are fine.

About excess flow, some people get it and some dont. If for some reason u get creep then try a different more restrictive catback.

matty

i agree with the other guy..u seem abit condoscending....the friggen guy is doing research by asking this question....get off your high horse, friend.

..and the power fc controls my boost and many other peoples boost fine. There is some trial and error for some reason. FD's vary in their respone to mods.

Garrett

I think you have just proved my point with your reply. I don't need to be lectured either.

This charade is pointless and half-hearted. I'm almost embarrassed I responded. Sorry mods.

Garrett

Jonesboro

I think you should limit your comments to the technical issues at hand (and of course you didn't respond to the original post) and quit making it your business to judge others, because you are a failure at it! How in the hell would you know if my intention was to put this guy down or help him?

You may have been involved in posting for some time but you sure as hell have not figured out that how a person words his post can be easily misinterpreted by others SUCH AS YOU! So, if anything, I'd say you should do a little self examination and recognize that you are jumping to conclusions.

When I see a Sticky that says we all need to get your approval on wording before posting, only then will I care what you have to say. And, when you become qualifed to judge the intentions of others make sure to post your declaration so we will all know to bow down to you!

Jonesboro

You should be embarrassed because if you look back through this thread you will see that you are the one who chose to PERSONALIZE this and take a shot at me! And your self pity makes me want to break out the violins!

DamonB

Members can only edit posts for 30 mins after posting; Jonesboro's reply comes 2 hours after the original post?

Garrett

Kevin T. Wyum

Why yes of course you should : ) I am unbiased. (heh)

Kevin T. Wyum

P.S. Cool charge III better, (what a laugh) it's always been a cheaply built copy of someone elses product (mine) and it always will be. Those elbows are really nice too, the ones I've seen barely fit, you had to use bench grinders to get them on the car.

redbase

Okay...let me redirect my questions and maybe I won't sound like such a "dumb ***":

IF I upgrade my IC from stock to the ASP Med, should I plan on upgrading my fuel components as well? What has been the experience of those of you who upgrade the IC with respect to fuel component upgrades? Currently, I'm typically running .70-.80 boost (from the commander) under WOT.

Also, once you added an upgraded IC, how did your FD respond? Did you have to modify the base maps of the PFC in order to get it to run "right" or was the basemap adequate?


Now for commentary:
Obviously, I am doing research on this subject or else I would not have asked a question. I have not gotten a *clear* answer to these questions, so I'm attempting to do so. I understand every car is different..but I'm looking for past experiences, that's all. If 9 out of 10 say "yes...I had to upgrade fuel components..it's not as simple as upgrade the IC and you're done" then I know it's a pretty good chance to start putting away $$ for fuel upgrades, boost controllers, etc. as well.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful to those who acutally take the time and see what my question is about. I appreciate your sharing in your experience. I don't want a lecture though! This is a public forum, and ANY question, no matter how "ill thought out", should be welcome without the poser of the question being flamed. Not all of us are professed know-it-alls.

Jonesboro

redbase,

Please set the record straight, did you end your original post with the word "confused" and then edit it out later or not?

You are not a dumb *** and I apologize if I said anything in anyway that offended you. You are right to press for a more detailed answer to your questions than you are getting.

When I look at your mods my biggest concern is your gutted cat. In a way it can act like a mid pipe eliminating exhaust back pressure from your system. The exhaust pressure in a stock main cat exhaust can be considered a safety factor preventing you from experiencing boost spikes and other boost problems.

You mentioned that your car is running very good now with the gutted cat. That suggests to me that the stock IC is now the main "pressure restriction" in your combined intake/exhaust system keeping you from experincing any boost issues.

If you were running a stock main cat with the rest of your mods then I think adding an ASP IC would be okay if you also include a boost controller at the same time. Your stock IC is probably causing 2psi pressure restriction in your intake system whereas the ASP will be much less than 1psi. That means simply changing the IC will result in maybe 2psi higher boost for you and needs to be controlled. The ASP IC would especially be an improvement if you then tuned for the higher intake charge.

With your gutted cat I become concerned that when adding an ASP IC your combined intake/exhaust system will be in "delicate balance". At that point tuning should be considered a necessity for peace of mind for the safety of your engine.

In all cases you seem to be considering so far, I believe the stock fuel system is more than adequate.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I've got a ASP med IC, DP, CB and M2 CF airbox. I'm running a M2 stage III ECU and it works great.

You don't need a bigger fuel pump or injectors unless your really going to crank up the boost a lot. I'm not exactly sure where that limit is but I know it is above 12psi.

There IS a problem with running the stock injectors at 100% duty cycle. There is NO safety margin, 100% is completely maxed out, there is no 101%... Boost control is never perfect and can vary slightly with outside temp, altitude, etc, all of these things effect your a/f ratio, running 100% is asking for trouble IMHO.

Kevin T. Wyum

Err although Jeff already answered this I'll do it again since I forgot to : ). With the mods you listed you're fine adding the IC, infact it's better for the car if you do. You will likely get a little spiking but as long as you have the PFC programmed right you should be perfectly fine.


Kevin T. Wyum

Garrett

My Pettit just dropped right in and I even had room for a hawker battery right next to it. I don't have a bench grinder but I certainly didn't need one to install it. ASP/M2 Larges are all the hype and apparently very good and cooling charge temperatures. That is why I like to push the Pettit. It is the same style (copy or not) and people are under the false conclusion that Pettit costs more.

When I bought it, I heard that it was a rip off of the M2 but that is common amongst the aftermarket community. When I was trying to decide on my turbo, one remark of an aftermarket group was that the competition’s exhaust manifold was a copy of the one they were using. It turns out that it really isn't but oh well. I try and decide on my product based on function and cost, not any other reason.

The end tanks look nothing alike. The end tanks on the M2 seem more angular, whereas the petit is smoother. Even the piping is remarkably different. In what way did Pettit copy you, the core? In that case I would assume there are a lot of copied intercoolers. It would be like saying someone else’s Garrett turbine is a direct copy of another Garrett Turbine but of a different kit. Doesn’t make any sense to me.

I was going to get the M2 and had the money for it but ran into more than one post of people bitching about back order and other nonsense. So I looked into a Pettit, they had plenty in stock, and am very happy with it. It is smart to push your own design, though, I would.

I still don't understand why you would need a bench grinder installing it. I guess our methods of installation must be different.

Garrett

Kevin T. Wyum

Pettit was so pathetic that they actually ordered two or three of mine then a few months later after asking if he could buy just ducts from me started selling a crappy knock off with piece of junk duct he tried to copy but it turned out poorly. He actually ordered them for customers and asked them if he could keep them for a little while before installing them. He's was too damn cheap to actually pay for one himself to copy. He had to borrow his customers money to steal it. I guess they're just flatly too stupid to create their own products. Hey if you want to trust yourself with someone that's deceptive and not bright enough to do anything but ask people to copy products for him that's your business. He's actually damn lucky he hasn't been sued and put out of business already. Not necessarily by me, although I haven't ruled it out yet but by the myriad of other places he's stolen designs from, including Greddy's elbow. I can't believe you actually have the nerve to stick up for dirtballs like that. Oh and btw, the end tank thing was about the funniest damn thing I've ever seen on his website. If you've seen how he actually operates internally you'd understand why it's so funny.

Kevin T. Wyum

P.S. Did I mention I'm not too fond of Cameron at this point? : )

Kevin T. Wyum

I just went and looked at their website. Feh, what an F'ing loser sheesh. The tubes are identical to the layout I've always used, Brian changed his a little to save on bends I beleive. The endtank pictured on the full kit picture is the exact endtank used on mine. Of course if you look at the funny pictures showing the

"care Pettit Racing puts into the hidden internal details of these extreme performance parts"

you'll notice a few things, such as the end tank show in the picture being ported out is not the same end tank actually welded to the Intercooler pictured in the complete kit photo. To top it off the actual output tube on the endtank photo is nothing but a regular piece of unpolihsed thin wall aluminum tubing with a bead. It's the same tubing you'd use for the IC pipes which are fairly fragile and wholely unfit for the core itself. You'll notice on real IC's they use thick heavy guage machined aluminum output tubes. Like I said cheap knock offs. You'd think they'd at least put good ones on pictures they're showing to the world.

Too funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Kevin T. Wyum

matty

Frankly, you arent very smart:
1)I think i did answer his question in the post before the one that you quoted. My response was very similar to turbojeff's and then reitierated by kevin.
2) You tell me not to judge then the next sentence later you say, "you are a failure at it!". Is that not judging me?

There is no reason for me to continue this with you.