AdamP

Forgive me if this was posted up somewhere else, but I did try and search and couldn’t find the info I was looking for.

I am looking at lowering my car. It and FD that sees the occasion autocross, but it’s more for fun and I am not looking for the ultimate competitive set up. Beyond lowering it I wouldn’t mind having the car handle more like my GF’s Miata (talk about fun. Please don’t flame me on this, I think anyone that has ever driven a Miata knows how easy they are to toss through turns), but I am at a loss what option is better, new springs and adjustable shocks, or going for one of the less expensive coil over set ups.

If I were to go with a spring and shock I was looking at Racing beat or Eibach Springs with a KYB or Tokico shock.

If I take the coilover option I was looking at some thing like the Tein SS, Apexi EXV, or maybe the Tein Flex.

Just would like to know the pro’s and cons of shocks and springs vs. coilovers. It seems to me that the cost of decent adjustable shocks and springs set up is about the same as the less expensive coilovers.

If I am retarded and there is an obvious thread on this I didn’t see please let me know. Thanks

sgof

I have the Tokico Illumina's with Ground Control coil over kit with eibach springs (550 front, 450 rear). It works well for me at the track, and rides well on the road on softer settings.

If you so auto-cross, I would not recommend the racing beat springs. I think the stock spring rates are 215? and the racing beat springs are only 10% stiffer. This means that under hard breaking into a sharp turn, the front may dip low enough to start scraping. well, my car was doing that... until I swapped them out for the GC+Eibach's...

I can't speak for the other setups since I don't have any experience with them. One friend love the JIX coilovers. I have another who has the Tein SS, and complains that it's overly hard and bouncy...

XSTransAm

do a search for howard coleman, his information on fd's suspension is among the best.

DamonB

With your goal being to merely lower the car I don't see any reason to do more than put new springs on the stock shocks. The stock shocks are quite good and many people here are very happy with merely adding lowering springs to them.

IMO true coilovers are a complete waste of money for a mostly street car.

AdamP

Thanks guys I am mulling throughthose posts now. Also I have 245/45/16 on the stock rims, if I lower the car will i run into fitment issues? As well when installing new shocks and springs is there an need to by a camber correction kit to fix the alignment?

DamonB

No.

You won't need to buy any additional parts for this car but you will need to have it re-aligned once you lower it. The suspension is completely adjustable in its stock form.

tdazmansFD

iTrader: (1)

Good Info! I've been wondering the same myself, just never asked. As far as just lowering springs, and a street driven FD, what brand would you recommend at a budgeted point of veiw?

coolvette

I got some rb springs here,on the forum.Great price and they work for me.You should be able to pick some up for 100-125 shipped.

jbrx7tt

That seems like a good solution, at what point in the life of your shocks would it just be better to replace the whole set-up? (i.e instead of having to do it all over again when the shocks go) I currently have 56k on my stocks and am planning on lowering...it would definitely be more cost effective if the life of the original shock is somewhat predictable. Any thoughts? Thanks!

jramosrx7

For mostly street use, I have used Eibach Pro-Kit springs and Tokico Illuminas. IMO, great combination for a street car. For the occasional autox/track car, I'd go with RS*R Race Springs and GAB Super Rs or Koni Yellows. Only if you intend to seriously autox or track the car would I consider a coilover set.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

So what about all those FD's that are lowered alot, like basically where the front lip is like 2-3 inches off the ground that are used for track? What suspension mods are they running?

I would assume it handles awesome but ride comfort is crap right? What about if you want to retain the ride height as being low low but have somewhat of a comfortable ride?

rynberg

You can't run a car that low (and why would you want to on the street anyway?) and still have soft spring rates. Why? Because you would be bottoming out or slamming the tires into the fender liners, that's why. IMO, the FD doesn't even look good when lowered that far, it just starts looking silly.

FWIW, I have just recently started running Zeal B6 coilovers with 600/550 lb springs (Track model). I'm trying the harder spring rates as part of a deal with Auto RnD. I have to say that on most surfaces, they actually ride BETTER than my HKS spring/Koni combination (progressive springs with ~400/290 rates). A PROPERLY designed coilover system can ride better than a mismatched spring and shock setup, even with much stiffer spring rates.

If you just want to lower the car, listen to DamonB and Howard Coleman -- run Eibach springs with stock shocks. A very livable combination with good handling and nice lowering. If you do occasionally auto-x or track the car, a nice middle ground setup would be the Eibach/Koni combo. Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on most of the inexpensive coilover systems. They usually have less than ideal damping curves AND -- what happens when a damper goes bad? Most JDM coilovers are NOT rebuildable here in the US. Tein and Zeal do rebuild here, which is why those two companies were the only coilover makers I would consider. If you have Konis, they are easily rebuildable or replaceable with little downtime (Koni has lifetime warranty!).

For the most part, coilovers are ridiculous for a street driven car. Especially given the downright silly spring rates most JDM coilovers use (many use spring rates above 600 lbs!).

clayne

If you're just looking to lower the car, be reasonable.

I run FLT-A2s here and think they're better match up than stock (R1)... but a lot of people might bitch that's it's "too stiff." I also don't recommend you spend 1500$ on coilovers if the goals are moderate lowering and occasional auto-x.

MakoRacing

iTrader: (12)

I agree with Damon (which is nothing new) on this one. IMO starting with Racing beat or Eibach springs and keeping the stock shocks would be ideal, you can always get konis or something later if you get more serious about tracking your car.

alberto_mg

FD shocks are reasonably long lasting. I think you can get another 30k or more out of the stock shocks if you only have 56k on yours.

I'm running stock shocks with H&R springs (search for posts from SleepR1 in suspension section). The fronts are newer but the rears appear to be the original 100k+ mile shocks. I can tell that the rears are a little slower to respond but still pretty close to the fronts. For street driving it is absolutely fine. If I spent more time open tracking or competitively autocrossing, I'd be replacing them with a set of Konis.

You probably don't need to replace the shocks yet. I probably would suggest checking and maybe replacing the shock tower mounts and the spring pads if they look worn. I replaced my 100k mile ones on my last FD and it made a world of difference reducing noise.

rot8or

So what would generally give better ride quality? Shocks/springs or coilovers?

armans

iTrader: (2)

It's all about the quality of a specific product. Note that a coilover is a shock + spring too, so no principal difference between the two things you're asking about.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

typically ride comfort is associated with both spring frequency and also critical damping ratio of the springs. so its a package deal. What also matters is the damping curve of the shock.

typically softer frequencies (softer spring rates) ride more comftorable than stiffer rates. As the car gets lowered you will need to increase spring rate to keep off the bumpstops.

I think a well selected spring rate with stock shocks will ride pretty good. I like the spring rates around 7/8/9 KG or 450lbs/in for the front and in the rear a good rate is 5/6/7KG or 336lbs/in. this agrees with what HC has found with his.

12/12 and 11/11KG is not a good spring rate no matter the shocks IMO. too stiff for the street. I would be interested in a 8/7 set up or 450/400ish rear. that might be good.

rot8or

Ok, thanks.


So technically with coilovers, you could adjust the spring rates to the softest possible without hitting the bumpstops?

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

if you want a more compliant ride with the road, yes. some coilovers are valved very stiff and it will leave you with a high critical damping ratio (firm ride), which means the suspension will be softer but the time it takes to dampen the spring will be super short. so compliant yet very firm from the shocks. This is the philosophy of Mazdas original spring/shock combo of the R1/R2 models. soft springs, big sways and stiffer shocks. I run this set up on my car as well, softer spring rates and higher damping rates for the springs. I run stock sway bars. I like it a lot. if you want a nice cadillac ride then you want low critical damping ratio and soft spring rates.



Colin Chapman worked out years ago that the secret to car handling was 1. Good suspension geometery 2. Soft as possible springs. 3. Immaculate damping. His point was, that if the tyres were off the ground, er, no cornering grip !! Try a 1972 Lotus Elan Sprint on a bumpy country lane to experience.

armans

iTrader: (2)

You can change the preload not the rate. See this.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

When I say changing the spring rates, it means you buy new springs with different rates.

The spring preload is the way to center the shock travel with different rates. If you swap softer spring rates on the car you will need to change the spring preload, most likely to have more preload on the spring.

I had to do this with mine and maintain the bump/travel at a certain spot on the shock.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

in actual fact, on an FD the only difference between coil overs and shock and spring is the height adjustment hardware. if you have the same damper and same spring they will ride and handle the same.

that being said, a spring is a spring, they come in every shape and size that you can imagine, and a bunch you can't. with a coil over, the difference is usually the damper, and the damper is a bigger contributor to ride quality than anything else.

there are two valves in a shock/damper, the low piston speed valve does handling, and the high piston speed valve does ride.

roondawg

iTrader: (1)

Can you still get new eibachs anywhere? Still listed online but no one seems to have them. Overall they seem like best choice.

silverTRD

iTrader: (36)

I have a set of touring shocks and rsr springs forsale right now, shameless plug