muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

Im looking to fabricate my own dual oil cooler set up and im in the process of trying to figure out what oil coolers to choose. The setrab 2pass oil coolers seem to catch my eye but ive never heard of anyone using dual pass oil cooler... im just looking for some feedback if anyone has experience or input on these...

Setrab Part # 619M22I 2P/ 51-07944
19 row
dimensions 5-3/4" x 11-1/4" 2 Pass.

I also like the inlet/oulet ports. i think this will be much easier to plumb with 90* fittings at all ends (oil cooler to oil cooler will run along crash bar)

Neo

iTrader: (4)

Sakebomb Garage Kit

I've been trying to obtain that kit for almost a year now..

Curse you money!!!

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

yeahh it looks like a nice kit and everyone who has it says good things about them but im not spending 1k on it when i can save ~400 doing it myself and custom fit it to my liking. but not really what i was asking...

Neo

iTrader: (4)

Sorry about that.. wasn't aware you were aware of the kit.

And yeah, 1G+ for the kit is a bit. But when it's basically plug-and-play, you can't lose.

Hopefully some of the gurus here will be able to answer your question!

Rotax on!!

theorie

iTrader: (31)

Why would you want to use a 2-pass? From what I've read there is little difference in cooling ability between 1- vs. 2-pass coolers. The only difference is that one pass has the inlet and outlet on opposite sides, where as the 2-pass has the inlet and outlet on the same side (but one on top, one on bottom).

So really 1- or 2-pass decision really has more to do with how you want to route lines, IIRC.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Few things on oil coolers.

If you just have the single cooler and would like a second cooler, Howard Coleman has a writeup on using the stock FD transmission cooler from an auto car and turning it into a second cooler for cheap.

Second, why do you need an oil cooler? Really, it's not a consideration unless you're doing a lot of track time, and I didn't think you were a track guy. Also, before just getting an oil cooler to do it, get an oil temp gauge and see if you really NEED it. I ran a temp gauge for a while and with my stock R1 dual coolers in Florida heat and daily driving in traffic my temps were kosher all the time.

No sense spending money to fix a problem you don't have. Put that money towards a problem you truly have.

Of course, if I'm off base here, go for it . But, consider that there are cheaper and easier ways to do it.

This is also something that needs to be done RIGHT. An oil cooler line leaking or bursting can ruin your day VERY quickly. If you don't get the lines right, routed right, etc. you could have a problem down the road. The OEM lines are damn near idiot-proof with very few points of failure, that's the way that system needs to be.

Dale

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

im not set on 2 pass. ive never heard of a 2pass oil cooler so i was just curious about it as those setrabs are in my price range i feel comfortable with..

I actually like the way the inlet/outlets are positioned and i think it will make the setup easier.

Can anyone else confirm what theories saying that there isnt much difference btw the single and dual pass?

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

Thanks for the comments dale

I am aware of the HC upgrade but im not really a fan of that setup vs cost.

I do have the R1 oil coolers as well but they dont fit due to my custom vmic. i would have to replace the main hardline and the return line which then starts to add up cost and might as well go custom.

You're right, im not a huge track guy, and i actually havent tracked the 7 yet. Ive never felt comfortable tracking it without doing what i felt were necessary upgrades. I need to get another after market oil temp gauge as mines a pos. but i just never felt comfortable with the idea of tracking a car with a single oil cooler.

is it overkill? possibly, but id have a better piece of mind knowing that is one less thing i have to worry about.

theorie

iTrader: (31)

What about those who are running a single turbo that is only oil cooled (no water cooling).

<--- knows first hand. Fried an oil control ring in my motor when a line blew off last month (fitting was loose)...

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

IMHO, running an oil cooled turbo, you're a damn fool. Turbos have been water cooled for some time, there's just no good reason to go with an oil cooled turbo. Especially when it's only 2 more hoses and the car already has fittings for said hoses.

Dale

theorie

iTrader: (31)

^ Really? Even with WI (i.e. reduced EGTs)?

I know there are a lot of people who run oil-cooled-only turbos these days...

rcracer_tx

iTrader: (1)

Setrab makes good oil coolers. My friends 700+ hp rx7 has a Setrab oil (48 row I think) and his temps are great even after a spirited drive and then hitting stop and go traffic in 100 degree plus weather.

The kit that SakeBomb Garage looks to be a nice kit, but all that is included is a bunch of fittings, pre-cut lines, and other off the shelf parts for an exorbitant amount over the retail price of the parts.

-The retail price you can get the 19 row Setrab oil cooler is around $170 shipped a piece.
http://www.amazon.com/Setrab-row-oil-cooler-ports/dp/B0011FNKKA
-The price of the In line thermostat that they use is a little under $160 shipped:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...9CZG8EF45ENTN8
-The price of all the fittings is around $20-30 a piece, there are 8 of them so that comes out to around $200 in fittings being generous. Unless you upgrade the lines are cheap rubber lines which cost less than $30. Random bolts and brackets can be found at home depot for under $20 as well.

So if you add that Up you are paying over a $1100 shipped for a kit that the individual pieces are only worth $750 total assuming you are still stuck paying retail. SBG adding an extra 40-45% profit margin over retail is not helping the community. You could buy all the parts and have a shop install everything for less than getting the parts from SakeBomb Garage.

Note: Stay away from Mocal: they are cheaply built and are prone to leaking and the fittings breaking off. I have yet to see anything conclusive on dual pass vs single pass in automotive applications, but the dual pass heat exchangers are generally more efficient in HVAC systems. (I know a bit off subject but the concept is the same)

Gringo Grande

iTrader: (97)

So the choices seem to be Setrab, Mocal and Earls. Earls seems to be the most inexpensive of the lot and a couple track guys have run them with no issues. Why do more people not use Earls?

theorie

iTrader: (31)

Oh god, not this argument again. I'm assuming you buy everything DIRECT from the manufacturer? Do you get your toilet paper directly from the toilet paper factory to save a few pennies? We live in a capitalist economy buddy, MARKUP is the name of the game.

That being said, look, some people like to DIY, some people like to buy a kit. Lots of vendors sell kits. When you buy a kit from somewhere, you're paying not only for the parts, but R&D that went into the kit, the pre-assembly of components, install instructions, a warranty of some kind, and getting it shipped to your house in one box.

Hell, Rx7store sells a popular fuel kit that is really just a couple of off the shelf injectors, some fuel hose, a KG Parts fuel rail, a handful of fittings. Would it be cheaper to buy the parts outright? Perhaps, but then you might end up making several purchases from different vendors, meaning you're paying for shipping on multiple boxes, etc. When you get a kit you also know that everything is going to work together because it's designed to do so - if you buy random parts to do something new, there's the chance you might get the wrong size, or shape, or material, etc. Trial and error can result in increasing costs. With a kit, there is not trial and error because the kit is sold ready to install.

Buying something in a kit isn't about doing it the cheapest way possible. It's about having everything available from the same source, with all the R&D done for you, and the tech support to help you install it. In the long run it will save you time, and we all know that time = money.

I bought one of the SakeBomb dual cooler kits and I love it. The time I saved NOT designing my own kit, sourcing parts, cutting & assembling hoses, etc. definitely more than covered the cost of for the markup.

So go cry about "markup" somewhere else.

prew

iTrader: (9)

I agree, the time the SBG guys put into making the kit is definitely worth something. Also you can't buy off the shelf brackets to mount the coolers. Our community is lucky to have guys like them still putting together new products for this car.

The only reason I didn't go with their kit is because I didn't have the cash and I have an aftermarket front bumper and wanted my coolers flush with the openings. Also I had more time then money for the trial and error, which there was a lot.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

We (SBG... which is just me and Scrub) run alot of GB's on the cooler kits (150 off retail), and typically extend discounts to customers outside of GB's from time to time as well. We're not a huge conglomerate out to screw people. Out base kit with the 19 row coolers is $1080, with our GB discount it comes to $930. That's $180 above your price calculation (which you didnt factor in shipping, any tax, all of the bolts, line hangers, and brackets to mount it all).

Shop costs are typically $90/hr or more... so if you can send it to a shop to install, build brackets, and do everything perfectly the first time around with no screw ups, you've come out even if they finish in under two hours lol. No shop could create this kit from scratch in two hours... and don't forget we still have to pay for all of the CNC brackets to be made.

So at the end of the day you get a box in the mail with literally EVERY PIECE YOU NEED, brackets/bolts/even the AN spanner, 20 page detailed step by step instructions with pictures... delivered to your house for $180 more than just the raw parts alone (and comes with every last bolt needed).

These kits are more than the sum of their parts, it's the iteration after iteration of design changes, testing, re-testing, redesigning etc ... we're not making much money AT ALL off this stuff guys When talking to customers I also always recommend the best bang for their buck based on the power they are making. Long story short.... as much as the sticker shock of an oil cooler kit makes us sound like the bad guys, we actually make next to nothing off each "sale". I would argue that for the little we make, we ARE infact doing a service to the FD community by pricing them quite reasonably, and I would argue saving everyone time and or money to pay someone else to try to mimic the same design.

I hate to break it to everyone, but we're not the bad guys... we're on YOUR TEAM we just cant give them away for free. We're FD junkies just like everyone else here, and we do this as a side business/hobby because we love these cars. No one's getting rich, I can assure you

-Heath

bufferovrflo

iTrader: (7)

Please get back on topic fellas and take this crap to pm's; feels like I'm reading NASIOC threads again...

I also would like to know more info about these multi pass coolers.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

Well they should slow down the flow of oil, with the trade off of increased resistance. But the standard single pass coolers (from our experience) are virtually impossible to overload, so why put additional strain on the oil pump? What's the goal here? or what do you hope to gain from the multi pass that the single pass does not already offer? Basically the oil has a longer path to travel so the oil stays in the coolers longer. This may be beneficial in stop/go traffic, but like I mentioned before the 19 (and for higher HP 25 row cores) are more than sufficient, traffic or no... so why go to a multi pass?

I'd like to hear a justification FOR going to multi-pass with these cores. I could see the argument for multi-pass with smaller cores though.

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

Whatever you go with, whether it's a kit or piecing it together, I would also suggest going with Setrab. I had Mocal coolers before, and they served me fairly well until a couple years ago. I had to replace one that had a dinked up fitting. The brand new one seeped oil from somewhere within the cooling fins. That's when I got Setrabs and haven't had a problem with them since. The main reason I got them was because if I messed up another fitting, I could take it out and replace it without having to buy a whole new oil cooler, like you have to do with Mocal. I like the Setrabs. I had a problem with a leaky fitting with the Mocals, before all the problems a couple years ago, and once I had that problem, it was never ending leaking and seeping from both of them.

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

whaaaaaaaaattt? why do you get the brackets cnc'd? its just bent flat bar... what is there to be cnc'd?

well im gonna rule this thread completely off topic. i was just asking about the dual pass oil coolers since ive never heard of them or heard of anyone using them..... didnt mean for this to turn into debate on diy vs buying a kit thread. i know its cheaper to do it myself and i said that. idk why people bring up that arguement when i said that was my intent and not even point of the thread....................

theorie

iTrader: (31)

Apparently you missed RotorMotor's last reply...

^ seems pretty on-topic to me...

Rx7aholic

iTrader: (22)

Hey I got the tools to make any an lines, if u need help of any lines to make shoot me a pm,
btw I have attach dual pass of setrab oil cooler.

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

There is no real justification. I am not saying i want them over single pass, i was simply just looking for more information on them as i couldnt find anything. they simply caught my eye because of the price and the inlet/outlet positions. all your points seem logical, guess there isnt much to be gain from the multi pass. now im just curious in setrabs intentions with these.. hmmm


i guess you want to play the smart *** card.. 1 of the past 11 posts hardly counts for on topic...

apparently you missed what you even said
cool, ill give you a buzz when time comes!

speedjunkie

iTrader: (3)

I just noticed I wasn't on top either man, sorry.


I've never seen anyone use those oil coolers. <----there, that's better. LOL

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

CNC bent and laserjet. CNC just means computer numeric control... could be multi axis machining or computer controlled laser/water jet, or brake. Point is they come out the same every time. Sorry didn't mean to nit-pick, but the term CNC gets thrown around incorrectly.


Back on topic.... setrabs goals for the multi pass were most likely for increased cooling at lower speeds, increased cooling where space was limited, and when increased oil capacity is not needed. We don't really have those issues with the FD... more fresh oil in the system battles dilution from gas and other changes in oil with age/wear, space isnt really limited for us, and the increased oil capacity serves as an additional heat sink for increased cooling at lower speeds. Now... at a dead stall in traffic you're getting 0 flow to the coolers, and all the heat you are bleeding off is simply radiant from the cores (and transferred to the stagnant air surrounding them). You could increase the surface area (what FD people normally do) or you could have that oil hang in the cooler longer (what the multi-pass does) to have more time to transfer heat to the slow passing/surrounding air. But for what you gain in cooling while sitting in traffic, you create additional risk during normal driving/performance driving scenarios. For the little in gains I personally wouldn't risk overloading the oil pump, and would just solve the cooling problem with more surface area.

That's my 2 pence, but again I'm not opposed to hear reasoning for using them.