FCdemon

Hey all, I am doing some major **** to my FD (haltech + more), and I am really contemplating doing this, since my twins are blown, I want to simplify the engine bay, and I have all the stuff for the conversion at my disposal with a hybridized series 5 turbo.

I was wondering if ANYONE HAD DONE THIS THEMSELVES, and DID IT FIT, as far as in the FD engine bay? If you've done it, do you have PICS?

I'm NOT looking for opinions on how much power it will make, it already has made far more than a stock FD when it was in my buddy's turbo II 1st gen. (290RWHP) And, that is with the inferior turbo II motor, UIM, and ports.

Thanks for any information anyone can provide.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

It'll fit, but of course your oil, water, intercooler, intake and downpipe plumbing will be way off and need to be modified. I havent done it myself, but I work with all series' engine every day and I see no problems with it.

I would port the wastegate a lot (if not already) before installation, though.

FCdemon

yeah, the wastegate is already ported, I have a fabricator to make DP and turbo-->IC piping, I'm planning on using the SMIC as it's much bigger than the TII TMIC. I'll use the stock intake manifolds and piping from the SMIC...

thanks for the insight. anyone else with info, please chime in.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

The only spot where you *may* have interference problems is at the outside - I'm 99% sure it will clear the intake manifold, as FD aftermarket turbo setups don't fit an FC since they hit the manifold. That means the FD manifold is slimmer and gives more room.

Oil and water lines shouldn't be too tricky - block off the rear oil return and just use the front. A stock TII downpipe will likely fit to some extent, then just need to be modded to meet up with the rest of the FD's exhaust.

Dale

FCdemon

yeah i'm pretty sure the FD LIM won't be a problem. what I really want to know about is the side of the engine bay.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

As small as the stocker is, you should have no issues.

Dezigns

I know of 2 people who have run this setup, and since my twins are on their way out... it's something Im considering too.

As stated previously, oil and water isnt too much of a problem (use the stock S5 oil lines), just need to fab a downpipe to suit, and intercooler/intake pipes.

Marcel Burkett

At max. boost , one of those turbos CANNOT supply as much air as the twins , your FD will make less power . A better solution would be to use an upgraded stock series 5 turbo , but this will not be more cost effective than buying a new , or even used T4 based turbo , like a 60-1 . There is no cheap way about this , you have to pay to play .

FCdemon

I believe I stated above that the series 5 turbo is already hybrided with a 60-1 compressor.. so it is cheap

WildCard342

Hi,
This is done a fair bit here in Australia. A highflowed series 5 will bolt up pretty easy and put out between 320 and 350 hp depending on wheels used. I know of guys that have had them done and they are as reliable as you will ever get an FD to be.

My mechanic here said he could fit one into my FD all up $700au (about 3 big macs with your exchange rate )

I have a set of standard power S8 twins with 17K on them that I am going to use on mine. My old turbos are on the way out. The series five solution is tempting though, cheap, good power, simplified engine bay and cheap as chips to rebuild.

Go for it.

FCdemon

Just giving a little progress report here...

I have the accessories all off the short block, and have fit the turbo on the exhaust side. It has no issues with fitment, unless the wastegate actuator hits something (I haven't put it on yet) I've looked at oil and water lines to the CHRA, and they will require some modification but not anything insane. I've already made blockoffs for the rear turbo oil drain and the OMP.

Next in line for me to do:

modify those oil and water lines (a little fabrication)
put 550 primaries and 1300 secondaries into fuel rail
get the o-rings I need to put the fuel rail back in, then put it in
modify water filler neck for AST removal
get started on making haltech harness
shorten TB intake pipe so it's friendly for couplers
cut off EBAY IC endtanks make new endtanks and modify for SMIC placement
fit SMIC
figure out where piping needs to go (with SMIC setup it is REALLY simple), have piping done
wire the car
route 3bar MAP sensor
install oil filter pedestal, route lines for A pillar gauge pod and install the gauges (boost and oil temp)
fill up fluids
tune it
drive it


--

I may be forgetting some stuff, and omitting minor things but I'm well on my way! I'll take some pictures and post them if anyone wants

DMRH

Mate, fitting a series-5 turbo onto a series-6 engine will yield less power. You just wont have the flow to match the twins not to mention the turbo will spool later & run out of puff sonner....

Try something else in my opinion. I have seen it done & it didn't work well at all.....

REgards

FCdemon

here is the progress, and as you can see there is TONS of room in the engine bay now... downpipe and turbo clearance are not an issue!

FCdemon

thanks for the input... but you may be missing something here:

a) the twins are REALLY restrictive and inefficient. Have you ever looked at how they and all the piping involved are designed?

b) I'm pretty sure that a 60-1 hifi can more than match stock airflow

c) boost response and power delivery should be at least as good as stock.. when this setup was on a TII motor, it pulled HARD, and with my motor obviously there is more airflow

d) the simplifications involved are worth it, even if I do make the same power as before

again, I appreciate the input and you may be right but I hope to prove you wrong. we shall see once it is up and running!

eyecandy

iTrader: (19)

Awe, that little turbo is so cute! LOL! How much modifying did you have to do to fit the DP and lines to it? Or is it just sitting there?

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Awesome! I'd love to see what you come up with.

My only concern with the setup - I think the twins can produce more power than the TII turbo. Highest I've seen with a stock TII turbo is about 250-280 to the ground, and about 300ish with a hybrid. The twins can easily do 300, with a max of about 380 practically.

But, I LOVE this project. Old TII guy, so I'm watching this with interest. Plumbing oil and water looks like it will be a snap, the downpipe will be the only mildly tricky part. Please keep plugging away and let's see what you get out of the setup! This might just turn out to be a new cool setup . I've pioneered many mods over the years, and even if it doesn't make mega crazy power, it would be interesting to see what you get, what the advantages/disadvantages are, etc. More RX-7 folks need to get in the garage and try something new - that's what keeps the community alive and interesting!

Dale

FCdemon

the DP isn't made yet, but it's a straight shot..there's not anything in the way. and if by little you mean twice the size of the twins, then yeah, it's little

FCdemon

thanks for the thoughts, Dale. I'm excited about doing something different as well. one nice thing about this project is that if I eventually decide that I want to make more power, all I really need is a turbo manifold and turbo, which are quite easy to come by. all the hard stuff will already be done!

Rx7_Nut13B

iTrader: (1)

What about mounting TWO S5 Turbo's on it, makes me say HUMMMMMMMM

FCdemon

yeah, another plan I had was to run a two turbo setup, with one turbo for each rotor... I hear that this method spools like crazy even with medium sized turbos.

mikey13b

Bringing a thread back from the dead

So how did this hybrid series 5 setup go?

Has anyone else had experience running a s5 turbo on an FD block? Improvements over the twins?

Please let me know as im curious as to doing this as a cheap way to do away with the twins, and simplify the engine bay.

Cheers

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

a friend of min did this a long time ago, the turbo basically bolts right on like its made for the car, which is the good news

the bad news even a high flow S5 turbo, with a big intercooler and full exhaust is like stock twins with a downpipe.

the big proof of this is that the stock ecu/pump and injectors are more than enough for anything you can do with a T2 based turbo.

so its good because its easy and cheap, and actually the car is really reliable and its fun and you can beat the pants off of it, and not worry about a thing

but its not a power upgrade at all

mikey13b

Cool thanks for the info.

So does the series 4/5 turbo bolt straight up to the series 6/7/8 turbo manifold?

Or do i need the exhaust manifold off the series 4/5 and bolt that up to the FD block, then bolt the turbo onto that?

And you know how you're saying overall power is still around the same as the stock twins, im assuming due to the similar limited amount of flow on the exhaust side, do u think welding the wastegate shut and running an external gate would allow for more exhaust flow and hence less backpressure, more consistent boost and also increased power?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Nope. You want a series 5 manifold like this:



Do not get the series 4. It has a flapper thing like an FD's turbo control valve. It's more complex and not as good for spool. S5 turbo and manifold are a simple twin scroll design with internal wastegate. You could even hook up the stock FD wastegate solenoid to the s5 turbo and control boost with that, as the factory s5 boost control solenoid is also a 2 port design.

If you get like a BNR stage 2 you can make as much power as an FD with stock twins and a few basic bolt ons (high 200s low 300s whp). The BNR stage 3/4 is going to be laggier and will be more like non sequential twins (mid 300s whp). See this part of the BNR website http://gonzaloherrero.com/bnr/index....d=67&Itemid=89

By FD standards the BNR hybrid setups are dirt cheap to put together. buy a good s5 manifold and a blown s5 turbo off the classifieds here. send off to BNR. install custom oil and water lines (search 2nd gen section for this) and set up boost control. BNR lists $650 for to do a stage 2 build on an s5 core. You could easily spend $1000 or less and make 300whp all day long with no sequential twins crap and no fuel system needed beyond maybe a fuel pump rewire. http://gonzaloherrero.com/bnr/index....d=67&Itemid=89

You will have to adapt a downpipe to make it work. You could get a used FC 3 inch downpipe and take it to an exhaust shop.

That would be hard to do on an s5 turbo because it is divided and has two wastegate passages. People have done it on an s4 but the s4 wastegate is inferior anyway. I think your best bet would be to get a BNR hybrid which already has a ported gate. If you do still have boost creep problems (that depends on porting, exhaust system, etc) you can add a little restriction to the exhaust and it will be ok.

mikey13b

Awesome thanks for all the info.

So the series 5 manifold will bolt straight up to the FD block with no mods required? Do the exhaust ports all line up properly with manifold, or does the manifold require porting?

I have access to a high flowed series 4 turbo for a good price, can i unbolt the exhaust housing and bolt up a series 5 exhaust housing to it, thus making it twin entry and with better wastegate?

Also, would the series 5 turbo bolt up to this HKS Cast Manifold (93+ RX-7) G17141-Z60020-00 ?
http://banzai-racing.com/store/manifolds.html

Cheers,
Mike