Sequential problems continue
09-08-05, 12:25 AM
#1
Summoning sequential gods.
I just finished my solenoid relocation project ive been doing for the past few days. I successfully moved the rats nest with all of the solenoids and electrical connections to the battery box, where I can work on them more readily. To make space for the rack I moved the battery to the trunk too.
Well I have been having problems with the sequential system every since I got my rebuild in. I put my original solenoids back into the rack when I got my motor rebuilt, so I expected those to be shot. I was originally only having primary boost with this set up. I was seeing around 11 psi of boost, but it would drop completely at the transition. I figured this boost problem was due to the solenoids, so I bought a used rack off a forum member who said all of its solenoids were good. I just took his word for it and switched all of the solenoids out. At that point I lost my primary completely, but gained a very strong secondary comming online at 4500. It pulled hard at ~11 psi all the way to redline.
My car ran like this for a few months because I didnt have time to get into it. Then one night the boost dropped from ~11 psi to ~4. I think this was caused by a boost leak. I think I have a split in one of the intercooler couplers. Im still yet to check these.
I grew tired of having to disassemble half the engine to work on these solenoids so this time when I went in to replace solenoids I decided to relocate them.
I tested all of the solenoids, and got 8 of them that passed all of the tests. I got everything all buttoned up tonight and took it out for its test. Warmed it up... Got on it at around 3k...No primary.....Then the secondary came online at the transition, but only at ~4psi. It builds really slow though. But the big kicker now was that it would start to misfire really really bad when on boost. I mean like tat-tat-tat-tat for as long as I stayed on it. I would only let it go for a bit, but I didnt want to break anything so I would let off. It would also blow lots of smoke out of the exhaust when misfiring.
So I guess Im at my wits end now. I feel like I have checked almost everything I can think of. I have already pulled codes...Everything checks out with that. I didnt test any of the solenoids that werent in the rack...Such as the Purge Control, Turbo Precontrol, and Turbo Control (The one next to the ACV). I dont know how to test any of these, otherwise I would have.
So I have a few questions now...What effects would I see from any of the above listed solenoids that I didnt test if they were bad? Would it be my symptoms? Also I was wondering if it could be my actual actuator. Maybe thats bad...How would I test to see if thats working properly?
Well thats all I can think of now. Ill post if I can remember anything else. Ill leave you guys with some pictures of the new setup.
Well I have been having problems with the sequential system every since I got my rebuild in. I put my original solenoids back into the rack when I got my motor rebuilt, so I expected those to be shot. I was originally only having primary boost with this set up. I was seeing around 11 psi of boost, but it would drop completely at the transition. I figured this boost problem was due to the solenoids, so I bought a used rack off a forum member who said all of its solenoids were good. I just took his word for it and switched all of the solenoids out. At that point I lost my primary completely, but gained a very strong secondary comming online at 4500. It pulled hard at ~11 psi all the way to redline.
My car ran like this for a few months because I didnt have time to get into it. Then one night the boost dropped from ~11 psi to ~4. I think this was caused by a boost leak. I think I have a split in one of the intercooler couplers. Im still yet to check these.
I grew tired of having to disassemble half the engine to work on these solenoids so this time when I went in to replace solenoids I decided to relocate them.
I tested all of the solenoids, and got 8 of them that passed all of the tests. I got everything all buttoned up tonight and took it out for its test. Warmed it up... Got on it at around 3k...No primary.....Then the secondary came online at the transition, but only at ~4psi. It builds really slow though. But the big kicker now was that it would start to misfire really really bad when on boost. I mean like tat-tat-tat-tat for as long as I stayed on it. I would only let it go for a bit, but I didnt want to break anything so I would let off. It would also blow lots of smoke out of the exhaust when misfiring.
So I guess Im at my wits end now. I feel like I have checked almost everything I can think of. I have already pulled codes...Everything checks out with that. I didnt test any of the solenoids that werent in the rack...Such as the Purge Control, Turbo Precontrol, and Turbo Control (The one next to the ACV). I dont know how to test any of these, otherwise I would have.
So I have a few questions now...What effects would I see from any of the above listed solenoids that I didnt test if they were bad? Would it be my symptoms? Also I was wondering if it could be my actual actuator. Maybe thats bad...How would I test to see if thats working properly?
Well thats all I can think of now. Ill post if I can remember anything else. Ill leave you guys with some pictures of the new setup.
Last edited by Cgotto6; 09-08-05 at 12:53 AM. Reason: different title to get more hits
09-08-05, 05:50 AM
#2
The precontrol and turbo control vacuum solenoid are both very important and must be tested.
The TC vacuum is pretty simple - the output nipple is the one closest to the connector. With 0V, it should flow readily to atmosphere, and the input nipple should not leak when vacuum is applied. With 12v, it should flow from input-output without hesitation.
The precontrol and wastegate are identical - they are simple open/shut valves. With 12v, they should be open, with 0v they should shut. No hesistation. I suggest you use a mityvac to apply pressure and give it a touch of 12v to ensure it opens readily.
Did you do the fancy test for the turbo control pressure solenoid? This one has an extra heavy load compared to the others in the rack, since the pressure held on the output nipple serves to make the solenoid stick when you apply 12v. See here: http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/solen...oid_check.html
I went through my solenoids and tested them to find the ones that released under the highest pressure according to this test - and the ones that would readily snap back and release the stored air at 15psi were the 'best'. If your TC pressure solenoid doesn't at least snap back against 12psi of backpressure, then you should find one that does.
Dave
The TC vacuum is pretty simple - the output nipple is the one closest to the connector. With 0V, it should flow readily to atmosphere, and the input nipple should not leak when vacuum is applied. With 12v, it should flow from input-output without hesitation.
The precontrol and wastegate are identical - they are simple open/shut valves. With 12v, they should be open, with 0v they should shut. No hesistation. I suggest you use a mityvac to apply pressure and give it a touch of 12v to ensure it opens readily.
Did you do the fancy test for the turbo control pressure solenoid? This one has an extra heavy load compared to the others in the rack, since the pressure held on the output nipple serves to make the solenoid stick when you apply 12v. See here: http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/solen...oid_check.html
I went through my solenoids and tested them to find the ones that released under the highest pressure according to this test - and the ones that would readily snap back and release the stored air at 15psi were the 'best'. If your TC pressure solenoid doesn't at least snap back against 12psi of backpressure, then you should find one that does.
Dave
09-08-05, 09:38 AM
#3
Originally Posted by dgeesaman
The precontrol and turbo control vacuum solenoid are both very important and must be tested.
The TC vacuum is pretty simple - the output nipple is the one closest to the connector. With 0V, it should flow readily to atmosphere, and the input nipple should not leak when vacuum is applied. With 12v, it should flow from input-output without hesitation.
The precontrol and wastegate are identical - they are simple open/shut valves. With 12v, they should be open, with 0v they should shut. No hesistation. I suggest you use a mityvac to apply pressure and give it a touch of 12v to ensure it opens readily.
Did you do the fancy test for the turbo control pressure solenoid? This one has an extra heavy load compared to the others in the rack, since the pressure held on the output nipple serves to make the solenoid stick when you apply 12v. See here: http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/solen...oid_check.html
I went through my solenoids and tested them to find the ones that released under the highest pressure according to this test - and the ones that would readily snap back and release the stored air at 15psi were the 'best'. If your TC pressure solenoid doesn't at least snap back against 12psi of backpressure, then you should find one that does.
Dave
The TC vacuum is pretty simple - the output nipple is the one closest to the connector. With 0V, it should flow readily to atmosphere, and the input nipple should not leak when vacuum is applied. With 12v, it should flow from input-output without hesitation.
The precontrol and wastegate are identical - they are simple open/shut valves. With 12v, they should be open, with 0v they should shut. No hesistation. I suggest you use a mityvac to apply pressure and give it a touch of 12v to ensure it opens readily.
Did you do the fancy test for the turbo control pressure solenoid? This one has an extra heavy load compared to the others in the rack, since the pressure held on the output nipple serves to make the solenoid stick when you apply 12v. See here: http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/solen...oid_check.html
I went through my solenoids and tested them to find the ones that released under the highest pressure according to this test - and the ones that would readily snap back and release the stored air at 15psi were the 'best'. If your TC pressure solenoid doesn't at least snap back against 12psi of backpressure, then you should find one that does.
Dave
Anybody have a word about the actuator? Or anything else that might help?
09-08-05, 09:42 AM
#4
The actuators have a test spec in the FSM. As well, they shouldn't leak when pressure is applied, and as you increase pressure the arm should move out steadily. They should snap back quickly when there are no tubes attached and you move the lever with your fingers.
The last actuator thing to check is proper pretension - when installed, you should need to stretch the actuator spring out 1-2mm to fit over its pin.
Dave
The last actuator thing to check is proper pretension - when installed, you should need to stretch the actuator spring out 1-2mm to fit over its pin.
Dave
Last edited by dgeesaman; 09-08-05 at 09:44 AM.
09-08-05, 03:34 PM
#5
Place your ad here...
How did you test the solenoids? Simply applying 12V to hear if they "click" is not good enough. Neither is simply applying vaccum to see if it holds. The solenoids need to be tested in the enviroment that they operate in. I have studied the operation of the sequential system for far too long. I have seen first hand that many solenoids will check out fine on the bench, but will FAIL at operating temperature.
Suggestion: Heat the solenoids to operating tempurature (bake them in an Oven at 300deg for a little while), then test them completely by applying the appropriate vacuum/pressure and 12V. Test them in every possible configuration.
If all of your solenoids check out fine, then test the turbo control actuator itself. Also, go back and check all of your work. It's very possible that some lines or wires are not connected properly.
Good luck!
-Rob
P.S. Have you seen my upgraded solenoid thread? Click Here
Suggestion: Heat the solenoids to operating tempurature (bake them in an Oven at 300deg for a little while), then test them completely by applying the appropriate vacuum/pressure and 12V. Test them in every possible configuration.
If all of your solenoids check out fine, then test the turbo control actuator itself. Also, go back and check all of your work. It's very possible that some lines or wires are not connected properly.
Good luck!
-Rob
P.S. Have you seen my upgraded solenoid thread? Click Here
09-08-05, 03:38 PM
#6
Originally Posted by saxyman990
I have seen first hand that many solenoids will check out fine on the bench, but will FAIL at operating temperature.
Dave
09-08-05, 06:39 PM
#7
Trust me I tested the **** out of these solenoids. I know for sure the ones I tested were good. I did every test on them, even heating them in the oven. I know those arent the problem anymore. Im leaning more to think its the wastegate solenoid, turbo control (by the acv), and/or turbo precontrol. Im pretty damn sure all of those are fried cause the chassis has ~150k on it. Almost every solenoid in the rack was shot when I tested them. So If those are bad, ill just replace them and go from there. Thanks to everybody who has posted.
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