mcfly4001

well i think my secondary turbo is going out, the car pulls weak after 4500 rpms, and there is a ton of oil in the pipes, even puddling up now. so what do yall think?

next problem, car has a hard time starting sometimes, after it has been ran a while, and then if i cut it off, it will not crank right back up, it takes up to 8 times to get it going again, but if it sits over night, it cranks on the first turn, would all this extra oil going into the engine from the bad secondary turbo be causing this? my plugs get nasty in a hurry, what do yall think?

thanks

paul

mcfly4001

bump

mcfly4001

come on now

adam c

iTrader: (2)

I think you have started too many stupid threads, and no one wants to bother with you any more.

You asked!!

mcfly4001

why is this stupid, Current Discussion including performance modifications and Technical Support Sections, thats the name of the forum, im sorry im not the mechanic you are, what is your problem, i have searched this entire forum for lots of things, but i like second thoughts on my issues before i go and start buying parts, but im sure you are just a spoiled little brat, that gets all he wants, and u are about to start pushing me boy and im done with you, dang man

911GT2

Wait, wait, lets all have a before any blood starts spilling.

As far as the turbo problem is concerned, have you checked over the control system? http://www.autosportracetech.com/RX-...leshooting.htm is a good website for diagnosing boost issues. Some oil blowby is normal, but a lot is more than likely indicative of bad seals somewhere that need to be replaced. If you are sure that everything in the control system is working as it should, and getting tons of oil, then I think it's probably time for a turbo rebuild.

The "won't start when warm" problem is a fairly common one. This thread https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...tart+when+warm seems to indicate that either a bad battery, or low compression ( , engine could need rebuilding too) would be at fault here.

SleepR1

New spark plugs?

mcfly4001

911gt2, i will double check my turbos, and my engine only had 15000 miles on it, so it shouldnt have low compression, though it might, i read that thread you posted, but that was what confused me, my engine being almost new, but i will continue to look before i have a compression test,

thanks though, good info to have,

sleep R1, i have new plugs, new wires, new fuel filter, coils checked out, new o2 sensor, and about 15 other systems have checked out, im going through them all, TPS was perfect, and i have a new air filter, so thats why im a little worried here, and thought all that extra oil from my secondary turbo that seems to be going bad might be having a bad effect on my car, where does all that extra oil end up, i have heard there is actually a oil line ran to the combustion chamber? and other idea?

plus, evertime i cut the car off, it backfires, leaky injectors?

thanks

satman

The turbos wont last as long as an engine. So much heat and stress. The second time around with a fresh engine will only lead to their demise. I have a friend here that can refresh them. Cost depends on condition. PM me.

SleepR1

Oil in your intake is normal. It comes from the primary turbo. The stock oil venting setup routes the oil pan pressure through the primary turbo (the lower intake hose), when under boost. If you notice the two nipples from the oil filler neck, one points toward the intake plennum, and the other points down. The one pointing toward the intake plennum has a PCV valve inline toward the plennum. Under vacuum (or no boost), the oil vents into the intake plennum through the PCV valve. Under boost, the PCV valve shuts, and the oil pressure vents through the nipple pointing down. This nipple has a hose that connects to the primary turbo through a rat's nest line. As you can see, either way, you get oil in your intake. The oily intake is especially a problem under hard cornering, high boost, or both, which is the case if you're track driving in the FD.

Too much oil in your intake piping is not good because it will foul your plugs sooner, and the extra oil in the lines will trickle down the vacuum lines and pool up in your vacuum chamber. If your vacuum chamber fills with oil, your turbo control actuator won't have enough vacuum to open the flapper and allow the secondary turbo boost pressure to come online. Are you sure your second turbo is coming online? Read this site completely before buying new turbos...

http://www.autosportracetech.com/RX-7/rx7stuff.htm

As for the oily mess in the intake. You should consider re-routing the oil venting to a catch bottle like what CrispyRx7 describes here: http://reganrotaryracing.tripod.com/catch.htm

Don't forget to plug the nipple under the intake plennum, and the nipple going to the primary turbo.

No more oil in the intake means cleaner plugs, and theoretically no more oil to collect into the vacuum chamber that could lead to secondary turbo control problems.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

This thread helped me quite a bit about my possible secondary problem.. Thanks guys.. i have to check..

Also, to Macfly4001, You could also check the turbines to see if there is a movement.. if you have ton of movement, thats a sure sign of needing a new turbo.. i'm going to check mine tomorrow.. I been having secondary turbo issues..

Also, How do I check my vacuum chamber to see if I have oil?? I notice its kind of a pain to take it off, is there a better way?? I also have clear silicone lines and haven't seen any oil in the line..

PHIL

911GT2

Sounds to me like that would be the issue then. Oily intake makes low secondary boost. Makes sense...

SleepR1

Get a vacuum tester pump and attach to the vacuum chamber. I got mine from NAPA (they're expensive but worth it at $80).

An empty vacuum chamber takes 20 pumps to create 25 inches Hg vacuum. If it only takes 3 to 5 pumps to create 25 inches Hg vacuum from your vacuum chamber, it's full of oil.

It's much easier to pump the oil out of the vacuum chamber than removing the it, since you'll need to pump the oil out of the chamber anyway.

In addition to the vacuum tester you bought, buy a Mityvac brake fluid kit. You will use the Mityvac kit for the tubing adapters and waste fluid reservoir. You will use the vacuum tester as the source for creating 25 inches Hg vacuum.

Find 1/16 (~2 mm) outer diameter nylon tubing (about 3 feet). You will not find this small diameter tubing in a hardware store. You will only find this small OD nylon hose from a biochemistry supply house. These lines are used for FPLC separations equipment (fancy for Fast Pressure Liquid Chromotography).

Start with this link from Millipore. Contact technical services, and describe what you need. You can go from there. http://www.millipore.com/

Once you acquire the tubing, feed the nylon tubing through the vacuum nipple on the vacuum chamber (a pair of needle nose pliers helps for this job).

Hook up the nylon tubing to a larger size OD tubing via the adapters that came with the Mityvac brake fluid kit.

Hook up the waste fluid reservoir to the vacuum pump.

Now start creating a vacuum with the vacuum pump.

The pump flow rate will be slow if you have cold oil. It's best to pump the oil out after running the car hard, since hot oil flows more quickly.

If your vacuum chamber is completely full of oil, pumping all the oil out of the chamber will be an all day job, since the vacuum chamber capacity is about 800 mL (the Mityvac waste reservoir is 120 mL).

Eventually you will pump all the oil out. This will be apparent. Before removing the tubing completely, pull the tubing out of the vacuum chamber nipple, a little at a time, and then create a vacuum with the pump. This will get the residual oil out of the vacuum chamber, in case the nylon tubing is coiled up inside the chamber (as you pull out the tubing, you unwind the coil, and by chance, the open end of the tubing could contact oil, and begin pumping oil out again). If you cannot create a vacuum with the pump setup, congrats, your vacuum chamber is empty.

As a final check, unhook all the pump lines and waste fluid reservoir. Hook up the vacuum pump directly to the vacuum chamber nipple. An empty vacuum chamber should take 20 pumps to create 25 inches Hg vacuum. If that's the case, congrats again! You have an empty vacuum chamber.

FD owners who experience secondary turbo problems should check the vacuum chamber. It might save you a bunch of money replacing solenoids, actuators, bypass valves, etc.

FWIW, I checked all the turbo control parts I replaced (from the Autosport Tech link above) with the vacuum pump. The check valves, old air bypass valve, charge relief valve, turbo control actuator, were good (held vacuum). I was not able to check the turbo control solenoid or wastegate/precontrol solenoid for voltage, but the solenoids did hold vaucum.

After replacing a bunch of parts (above totalling $900 from Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development) my secondary turbo problem was NOT solved until I pumped the oil out of my vacuum chamber. If I were doing this diagnosis again, I'd start with the vacuum chamber FIRST. I would have saved myself much more money!

To avoid filling the vacuum chamber with oil again, I re-installed my oil catch bottle setup 2 weeks ago.

As a precaution, I test my vacuum chamber periodically, and, pump oil out of my vacuum chamber every few weeks to ensure the vacuum chamber never fills with oil AGAIN!

I spent some time on this post, because I don't want you all to make the mistakes I made in diagnosing secondary turbo problems.

Check the vacuum chamber FIRST!

mcfly4001

sleep r1, amazing advice! im currently checking out my turbos, using that site u gave me, but i just got mad at my car, pulled the UIM off, traced every vacuum hose, and i have found several problems, two of my hoses are totally missing a check valve, and several were just dry rotted and unhooked.

so im putting it back together to day, i hope this fixes, my crank and stalling probs, i will get back, thank for everything,

paul

SleepR1

Wow. I would consider doing a hose job while you're at it. If you can have your car down that long, the hose job is worth doing. Do a search on this forum. As I recall you'll need about 30 feet of silicone rubber hose material. Best of luck. Please follow-up with us and let us know how you solved the problem.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Thanks SleepR1... luckily I work in a research lab.. so I could get that hose you mentioned..

I might go head and try that on my vacuum chamber.. even though I think I fixed my secondary boost issue..

One of my one way valve was completely blocked and one other at very very low flow rate..

So, since i went simplified seq. set up, I was able to use only two one way valves.. After installing those, I got secondary boost..

mcfly4001

ok now my car wont even crank, turns over fine, but nothing, i have new plugs, wires, fuel filter, o2 sensor, battery, terminals, and vacuum hoses, plugs are sparking good, i pulled them, and had some body turn the key, and they sparked equally good, and i deflooded the car, and nothing, was going to check the TPS, but it calls for the car to be fully warmed up, and i cant crank it, and i tried to take some readings from the TPS but got some crazy readings, does anyone have cold engine readings for the TPS at WOT and no throttle?

and when should ur fans run, mines comes on as i rev the car on a cold start up, and shuts back off at no throttle?

thanks everyone, this could be a long week,

paul

mcfly4001

car still will not crank, should the car have fuel pressure with the ignition switch turned to the on position? cause mine dont?

mcfly4001

anybody?

SleepR1

I'm afraid this is no longer a secondary turbo problem. There should be fuel pressure. Get an FD Rx7 manual and go through the troubleshooting for a no-start...

mcfly4001

i agree sleep r1 thanks, well with the ignition switch on, and the car not running, there is no fuel pressure, but when i jump the f/p and the ground in the diagnosis harness, i get fuel pressure, but it still will not crank, i think i have heard that the stock fuel pump has two stages, that are governed by the amount of voltage each stage gets (stage one 6 volts, stage two 12 volts, ????? i dont really know) , but i imagine when i jump the f/p and the ground i am running the full 12 volts, could my stage one be messed up? would a full 12 volts on start up flood the car?

PaulyDee

It sounds like there is a misunderstanding of terms. When you say the engine won't crank, do you mean it won't spin? It seems like you mean it spins but won't fire. The basic trouble shooting path is check for fuel, check for spark and check for compression. You mentioned taking the UIM off, are all the hose connected? Take special notice on the hose that goes to the pressure sensor on the firewall. If disconnected the car may not start.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

O.k.. this might be slightly out of line.. but check it..

One of the guy couldn't not start his car here in Bham and it ended up being his main fuse..

I'm not sure.. but I think he's started cranked.. but nothing else worked.. but i could be wrong on this..

Otherwise, like everyone said.. check all the lines.. Good luck.. let us know what you did and what you have not done.. more detail info you give us, better we'll be able to help..

mcfly4001

hey pauly, the map sensor is fine, the car will turn over, but will not start, and i do have fire, thats why im leaning toward fuel now,

herblenny, i will check that fuse, but i think its ok

here is the latest, the line coming from my tank, will not hold pressure, i jumped the f/p and gound in the diagnosis box, and it built up pressure in the line, but after 5-10 min, i disconnected the line and it just dripped out, should there be more pressure? i think so

well i just took the fpr off, and here are the results:

i put my air gun to the fpr, at 50 psi, and where the gas line hooks to it, and blew air through that inlet hole, it would not let the air pass, but at 40 psi, i put the air gun at the end that goes into the fuel rail, and i blew through, seems like it should blow through easier on the fuel line inlet side, what do yall think?

and i pulled the fuel pump, no signs of leaks!

i dont know,

thanks everyone!

PaulyDee

Well, the proper way to check for fuel is to hook up a fuel pressure gauge two ways.

The first way is to hook it up to the hose that is goes into the fuel rail (from the FP). This will test your un-regulated pressure. There is a pressure specified in the shop manual but I can't seem to recall it at the moment.

The other way is to T the fuel pressure gauge into the input fuel line. This will show your regulated fuel pressure. Once again the manual calls out the required pressure.

If pressure is below the specified ranges then the pump is bad.