Run without no intercooler!!
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 1
From: Buckhead
Get water injection, get rid of your IC and go home happy. Keep in mind the following things have happen to my WI over the last 9 months:
broke 7 Water bottles, blown 4 fuses, popped the hose lines 3 times, cracked 2 hoses, you get the idea.
broke 7 Water bottles, blown 4 fuses, popped the hose lines 3 times, cracked 2 hoses, you get the idea.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
A few further points.
First, you will still get 10 PSI boost. The reason you see higher boost right at the "Y" pipe now is the boost is a closed loop controlled system. It's controlling the level at the point the pressure sensor is connected (after throttle body). So, the difference between what you see at the "Y" pipe and at the UIM (boost gauge point) is the pressure loss caused by flow through the IC. I take this to mean eliminating the IC would probably extend the life of the turbos (they wouldn't have to work as hard).
Second, the increased intake temps. without the IC should cause the engine to run -rich- as hot air is thinner, so less O2 with the same fuel (unless the ECU "compensates" for the increased temp by decreasing fuel).
I think this might be a viable way to go based on the following:
Current IC is not very efficient due to poor cooling air supply and small stock size.
Remove IC and use water injection to lower intake temps. Add ethyl alcohol for further reduction and more power (compared to just water). Would have to watch air/fuel very closely with the alcohol though. Could lean out on you. Will need a large water tank, but lots of room now that the IC is gone.
May increase turbo life or allow greater boost with stock turbos.
First, you will still get 10 PSI boost. The reason you see higher boost right at the "Y" pipe now is the boost is a closed loop controlled system. It's controlling the level at the point the pressure sensor is connected (after throttle body). So, the difference between what you see at the "Y" pipe and at the UIM (boost gauge point) is the pressure loss caused by flow through the IC. I take this to mean eliminating the IC would probably extend the life of the turbos (they wouldn't have to work as hard).
Second, the increased intake temps. without the IC should cause the engine to run -rich- as hot air is thinner, so less O2 with the same fuel (unless the ECU "compensates" for the increased temp by decreasing fuel).
I think this might be a viable way to go based on the following:
Current IC is not very efficient due to poor cooling air supply and small stock size.
Remove IC and use water injection to lower intake temps. Add ethyl alcohol for further reduction and more power (compared to just water). Would have to watch air/fuel very closely with the alcohol though. Could lean out on you. Will need a large water tank, but lots of room now that the IC is gone.
May increase turbo life or allow greater boost with stock turbos.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,804
Likes: 646
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
Originally posted by fcfdfan
I ain't not saying it's not a unbad no good idea, but I don't misunderstand why you're not unasking it, since no nitwit would not unrun without no intercooler.
I ain't not saying it's not a unbad no good idea, but I don't misunderstand why you're not unasking it, since no nitwit would not unrun without no intercooler.
Originally posted by David Beale
A few further points.
First, you will still get 10 PSI boost. The reason you see higher boost right at the "Y" pipe now is the boost is a closed loop controlled system. It's controlling the level at the point the pressure sensor is connected (after throttle body). So, the difference between what you see at the "Y" pipe and at the UIM (boost gauge point) is the pressure loss caused by flow through the IC. I take this to mean eliminating the IC would probably extend the life of the turbos (they wouldn't have to work as hard).
A few further points.
First, you will still get 10 PSI boost. The reason you see higher boost right at the "Y" pipe now is the boost is a closed loop controlled system. It's controlling the level at the point the pressure sensor is connected (after throttle body). So, the difference between what you see at the "Y" pipe and at the UIM (boost gauge point) is the pressure loss caused by flow through the IC. I take this to mean eliminating the IC would probably extend the life of the turbos (they wouldn't have to work as hard).
True but I'll still need to port the waste gate and a boost controler to control the boost because eliminating the IC will cause a boost increase at the manifold(less pressure brop).
Second, the increased intake temps. without the IC should cause the engine to run -rich- as hot air is thinner, so less O2 with the same fuel (unless the ECU "compensates" for the increased temp by decreasing fuel).
I think this might be a viable way to go based on the following:
Current IC is not very efficient due to poor cooling air supply and small stock size.
Remove IC and use water injection to lower intake temps. Add ethyl alcohol for further reduction and more power (compared to just water). Would have to watch air/fuel very closely with the alcohol though. Could lean out on you. Will need a large water tank, but lots of room now that the IC is gone.
May increase turbo life or allow greater boost with stock turbos.
I think this might be a viable way to go based on the following:
Current IC is not very efficient due to poor cooling air supply and small stock size.
Remove IC and use water injection to lower intake temps. Add ethyl alcohol for further reduction and more power (compared to just water). Would have to watch air/fuel very closely with the alcohol though. Could lean out on you. Will need a large water tank, but lots of room now that the IC is gone.
May increase turbo life or allow greater boost with stock turbos.
Exactly, increasing the turbo life is just one of the many benefits by eliminating the IC. Here are the other benefits:
1. Cooler running engine:
No IC means we can have verticle front mount radiators that get full frontal air flow. Our cars run hot enough as it is especially with FMIC's.
2. Quicker throttle responce:
This will cut down on some of the lag that turbos produce(especially front mounts).
3. No heat soak:
When ZERO was doing test of his set-up, he stated that the intake temps on statup were really high after the car sat for a while(heat soak). When his WI kicked in the temps went down quickly however, once off the boost, the temps would quickly rise again. Why? In this situation his SMIC is still practically a heat sink from all the heat it's absorbed from the super hot engine bay. So on hot summer days, its going to take quite a while for that IC to cool off enough so it can do it's job. This is the main thing I hate about air to air IC's. Remember, these IC's will never lower the intake temps lower than ambient temps. So if the heat soaked IC is at around 150 degrees, thats as low it can lower the intake temps at that particular time.
4. More engine bay air flow.
Less stuff in the way of air flow.
5. Extended engine life.
We all know that WI helps with detenation. Need I say more.
6. Cooler intake temps:
With a 2 stage WI set-up, the intake temps will be more consistant & cooler.
With a "reliable" 2 stage WI set-up, this is all possible. Wouldn't you guys love to be able to drive the cars just as hard in 100 degree weather as you would in cooler weather? I know I would.
Last edited by t-von; Nov 30, 2003 at 01:34 PM.
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