Well, after driving 5 hours from Tulsa we made it to Dallas at 6:15am and spent about an hour trying to find Rotary Performance. It was probably the guy thing that resulted in it taking so long to find the place (refusing to stop and ask directions)... anyway, finally got there and met Chris and he's a super cool guy...Basically I gave him the history of the car and what I wanted done to it and off they went...

My list went as follows
1. Fix oil leak by turbos
2. Diagnose boost problem
3. Fuel Filter
4. Mid Pipe or HFC
5. Pully Kit.


See attached JPG for actual done list

Bare in mind that I have a stock engine with 83k and original turbos. First they took it for a test run to see what the boost was and within 30 minutes they told me that one solenoid wasn't working and that I missed check valve when I did the hose job. So I got a used solenoid and my boost was back to normal...

As for the oil leak it turned out to be my oil return line and they cranked down on the crush rings and fixed that problem...then they found that the engine rear main seal was also leaking...Chris gave me the break down and said if I can live with it then it can stay and no dropping of the tranny would be required...I decided to go ahead and fix it since it drove me nutz to have the oil leaking...so there something else added to labour..

While they had the transmission pulled (seemed like it took them less than an hour to do this) Chris showed me a new stock clutch and showed me mine which wasn't stock but something less adequate. So instead of just putting in a stock clutch I put in the Bonez StreetComp Clutch Set @ $499..no added labour since the tranny was already dropped for the leak.

something else they found was that one of the oil return lines were corroded and leaking so they replaced it with a used one since no new ones were available...so another leak fixed.

When it came time for the mid-pipe Chris tried to convince me that it wouldn't be wise since it was the original engine with 83k miles...I said I still wanted to try it if the compression numbers are good...they were all mid 8s and pretty even. so I said yes and then took off to lunch...I got a call from Chris during lunch and he said

"Are you sure you want to put a mid-pipe on this thing? Every instinct that I have says it's going to blow the engine on the dyno."

Seeing that I have only had my car 10 months and he has been dealling with them since 93 I said "Ok, do what you feel is best." So no mid-pipe but he did sell me the Efiny Y-pipe.

After all that I got to witness my first dyno tune where Chris did all the tuning and we just stood back and watched while he explained the finer points of what the heck he was doing. the stock car with

- DP
- Y-Pipe
- Intake
- RB Dual catback

dynoed at 255.4 rwhp @ 10psi...I really didn't know what to expect but I was pretty happy.

So I had arrived at RP and they started working on it at 8am and I drove out by 6pm and was on my way 5 hour drive home with a totally functional 3rd Gen minus the oil leaks and no boost problem....Overall I am very please with the service and the knowledge of the guys at RP...it was a sight to see 5-6 3gens on lifts and then 6-7 more outside...pretty kool if you ask me...

Anyway I am attaching my receipt of what was done and also the dyno sheet...This is my story and I am sticking to it.

However, the morning after I notice some gurgling coolant and funk start-up for about the first minute then it calmed down...after a while of driving the coolant overflow tank overflowed and it's been doing that ever since...Been trying to do the whole burping thing by removing the TB coolant line, fill, start, cool, fill, start cool...so I am on my second fill...went for a drive and still having overflowing probs...any ideas? Think I will probably start another thread on this...

Later all,
ApneaBlue

 

Sweet man.. bet ur car feels like new now


Lots of money though..
thats really good numbers for your mods imo.

PFC?

 

Sounds like reasonable labor from my perspective. You had a lot done and they dedicated a day which is nice as well. I hate the can you leave it overnight question...
I'd want to watch over anyone like a hawk if they were working on my car.

 

Yes, I forgot PFC included

 

That looks like an excellent tuning job. Power delivery is very smooth, no high rpm breakup, transition is about as perfect as can be. I also agree that a HFC is a better choice than a midpipe for you. Hopefully you can work out the overflow issues, that may be something to worry about in an older engine.

 

repost doh

 

I am convinced Rotary Performance is THE place to have your car maintained..if you don't it yourself. Anyway, why does everybody think a down pipe is bad for an older motor and a high flow cat is not...still new to the FD and my motor is original as are turbos at 64K.

 

AWESOME

that is a lot of money but if they treated you right that's what really matters not the money. God I wish there was an honest and real rotary shop near where I live.

 

One thing Chris did say about the dyno graph is that if you notice the primary's path before it transitions to the second...It's pretty flat and doesn't have that slight hump like the secondary does...Basically he said that "the primary is getting tired." Also I stuck with the stock cat as it would have ran me another $500 for the Bonez HFC and I wasn't quite prepared for that. But he did say that if the engine was stronger and a mid pipe was added it would increase the efficiency of the primary and probably bring that curve up a bit.

So yeah, I also hear they customer support is awesome too...I will see this morning when I call and ask about my coolant overflow probs...Hope it's not the coolant o-rings but I guess with this much miles on a stock engine it's kinda expected...(posting reply while crossing fingers)

Laterz

 

Looks pretty good. I'd say the $1800 was worth it.

 

I would pose a question about the a/f ratios and hope to learn something along the way. Looking at the above dyno graph, the car, under boost until past transition is in the 12's or higher...leaner. Seems like that would be a bit risky in cold weather, go to punch it, or drop a gear and your at 3 K and got WOT in cold weather would be upping the chance of popping the motor. Any ideas on why he would tune it that lean under boost? I would think you would want that a/f line to get into the 11's as quickly as possible while under boost, not after transition making 10psi nearing the peak torque where that is the most stressful rpm range for the car.

Tim

 

Must admit, I know nothing about AFR....just the fact that too lean and it's bad and better to run rich than lean.

But when I was there Chris @ RP was kinda explaining what the hell he was doing to the car and he printed out the dyno sheet and explained that since my motor was pretty much on its last leg he made it richer "up top" (i'm guessing he means high RPM) to make it a bit safer...So I dunno...everyone here says it's running lean. Maybe he set me up so I could blow my motor and come back to him for a rebuild hehe...How would I go about richening it "up top" using the PFC...can anyone direct me to some good threads on PFC manipulation?

Oh, BTW Tim, thanks for the tip on the kinked overflow line...will check it later.

David

 

Do you have the commander? If so, go into the fuel map and bump up the fuel in the cells that correspond with 10 psi (I would think it would be row P15 or 16) and the given RPM range of N 6 - 12 or so. My cells in that area go from 1.164 in P15 N6 to 1.328 at P15 N12. See what commander values are in the fuel map correction section and drop me a PM or post them here.

The curves look great, just wanting to make sure its safe on the bottom end since it seems that's where people lose engines.
Tim

 

Tim, I do have the commander (and the instructions I might add) it will be the weekend before I get to it though...I will be dropping you a pm after a bit...safe is guud

 

It's my understanding (and experience) that most people lose their motors when detonation occurs at/near torque peak not in the low RPMs.

Also Apneablue mentions the flat HP on the primary turbo leading to possible old cat or "Tired" Pri turbo. either way (I'd bet my money on the cat before the turbo) the result is decreased CFM through the motor in that RPM range. Basically this means he can get away with a leaner burn down there assuming nothing changes. In fact Chris probably did a little leaning there to try & build boost faster & produce a better low RPM HP #.

The fact is EGT's are the only way to determine what the chamber pressures are. Without that all you can do is trust Chris or make it richer & lose a little bottom end (which there's not much to lose). Personally I'd like my car to be richer then 14:1 @ 3K, but my setup is drastically different...

My .02
Eric.

 

Speaking of EGT, I have the Defi EGT gauge and almost never look at it...what are the safe / unsafe readings for this thing...I read somewhere between 14 & 15 x 100° (I think) at WOT....whadda you think?

 

Where is the probe located?
Is the temp solid or does it climb/lower with RPM?

 

ES, I'd also like to know about how to read my EGT for the Chamber Pressure #'s.
Apnea,
Chris has also been a big help to me in the few times Ive spoken with him and had the car there. And I also wonder about the A/F ratio on your graph for when the Primary is at full boost. Ill post one of my old dyno plots (with only Intake/Exhaust) *pic wont attach
you can PM me your e-mail and Ill hook it up.

 

Well, considering that about half of your bill is parts I think you got a fair deal. Its a lot of money but its also a lot of work!!! You spent right at $900 on everything else and that counted changing the rear main, clutch, misc oil leaks, and dyno tuning.....I think thats a decent price for all the work involved

STEPHEN

 

The probe is located in the DP about 3-4 inches away from the tubo manifold. The temp is solid at idle but flickers about a mm...it climbs steadily with acceleration...Don't think I ever seen it go above 15 whatever units it is...now I am trying to think and I can't remember what units it's in...that's how much attention I give it.

 

Well that's gotta be 1500° F. Which is ~ 816°C. Not bad, & that's a pretty good location for the probe. You should send an email to Chris to see what temp he was shooting for. Basically the higher the temp the greater the chamber pressure, the more power, the greater the chance of detonation.

Have you noticed a difference in temps between before Chris tuned it & after? Did Chris do anything with the ignition maps or are you still running the Apex'i base map?

Since your A/F chart reads so lean <3K RPM you might want to try & bring it down to the 13-12's & advance the ignition maps a little to bring the bottom end HP up. If you go screwing with the ign maps don't forget to fix the split before trying out any changes. This is the territory that blows motors, so use discretion. Chris is the one most familiar with your car, so you're much better off picking him for tips & info than trusting me.

I've never really payed much attention to dyno plots of FDs with cats on, so maybe the slow torque & HP build is just due to the cat.

 

to be honest I really never paid attention to the temps before and after the tune...think I will probably do that next time...I'm NOT at all confident messing with the maps...Pretty much all I use the commander for is monitoring water temp, boost, and injector duty cycle...Probably the only mod I will do before I get a rebuild (probably soon as I am currently a CRC block weld bitch) is add the Greddy 2 row FMIC...and still I probably wont go messing with the PFC maps...Where's a good place to start figuring out basic tuning.