Even with a 5 or 6 pt harness cages are really that dangerous? I've been thinking about putting in a cage for safety but now I need to do some more research.

P.s. One of the first things I did with my car was tear out the airbags and put in 5pt's.

 

Go find a car with a cage in it. Take a look at how close the top bar is to your head while you are in the seat. You would be surprised how much movement your body does in an accident...even with harnesses.

Harnesses are even debatable on the street.

I run with full airbags and stock seatbelts on the street...and I do have a roll bar padded up. I reserve the harness for track use. I think it would be safer with no roll bar...but a cage would be insanely risky.

 

So you think your body DOESN'T move enough to bash your head on the FACTORY door sills or roof liner? I"ve SEEN more people DIE in cars that are deemed SAFE by THIS reasoning.( Manufacturers know best they would have put one if it needed it. The ford explorer for one!!)BULSHIT it's all about the Bottom line for companies.($$) That's what they care about ...oh yeah and making it look pretty for all the yuppies!

 

To each thier own...make your own decisions.

 

Dominic Toretto would have never survived the crash he had with that Semi, if he didn't have a cage. I'm not sure it had any padding, but it saved his life!

 

good point! maybe i was wrong... but it was different b/c dom needed it or else the chassis would twist off the line...

 

c that was my initial concern...flipping the car over. but then again...if roll bars pose that much of a risk of injury even when padded like u guys say, imma hafta think it over twice...cuz ur much more likely to get in a front, rear, or side impact accident than a rollover w/ an FD...(at least on the street, when u wont b wearin no helmet...)

 

Ah, ha but you see, if your gunna be driving inn some way that is deemed unsafe on the streets, you might as well wear a helmet when driving. I have already purchased an arai helmet for auto X and I do plan to wear it while I drive on the streets. (dorky? yes! Safe? Most definitely). I'm not a wreckless driver or anything but I know that if I am gunna be doign what I am gunna be doig I migth as well have that cage and helmet.

 

wearing a 5(or 4) pt. harness without a rollcage is not a good idea where the car may possibly flip. Your stock 3 point seat belts are designed to let you slide one way or another when the car rolls over and the roof collapses. 5 pt won't allow that and you will break your neck from even a slow roll.

there are many different kinds of padding for rollcages. The "pipe insulation" kind that might stop you from getting a bruise...and the hard foam kind at is truely energy absorbing like helmet foam...or bicycle foam. Granted it's like 5 times as expensive and hard so you'll get a head ache, but probably not break your skull open.

my rally car has diagonal braces at about ear level...guess what kinda foam I have on those.

A cage does not make your car tremendously more unsafe from a structural point of view. You simply can't make the cage completely stiffen all of the crush zones in the car. Don't do any more than seam weld the front frame rails. Don't do any more than seam weld the rear trunk frame rails...

and you can jump out of the car in 20 seconds when you meet mr tree up close and personal.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/r...er/treeter.jpg

i'd rather be in any wreck in my rally car with my helmet on than any other car I've driven in.

John

 

My friend who was at a BMW track day mentioned that someone with a roll cage went into a berm at relatively low speed and managed to knock himself out on a full cage bar. He was wearing a helmet, dont want to think what woulda happened without it...

 

xchaos,

Why would you want to use a 3-pt factory belt that will allow MORE body movement in the event of a crash -when you have a roll bar?

 

you can always build a custom roll cage. your self

 

I don't know the real specifics fo the debate really. I would imagine that in a car without a rollbar or cage some movement is a good thing as your body won't be quite as jarred in a accident. Possibly also frowned on because a 4 or 5 pt harness may not be as easy to remove from a paramedic's standpoint.

I do know that one of the leading causes of deaths in auto accidents in which the passenger compartment was not compromised is internal bleeding. Ever wonder why it seems that drunk drivers come out of accidents with alot less injuries than the person they hit? This has alot to do with the drunk being more relaxed at impact...vs the other person who sees it coming and stiffens their whole body just before impact. Having some movement is a good thing, unless that movement is enough to smack your head into a steel bar.

Hehe...its too early in the morning to think clearly so forgive my ramblings!

 

From what I've read you have two options:

1. Stock chassis with air bags and 3 pt. seat belt. They are designed to be used together. If the accident is serious enough you will be killed. This combination is good for legal speeds only. Not trying to stop anyone from speeding - it's just not capable of protecting you above legal speeds. It does have an advantage over the next option - in a mild accident you will not suffer from brain against skull interior damage as the belts have a "tearout" portion (you can see it at the sides of the seat - it's a section folded and sewn so it will release at a certain force). This limits the "g" force you experience, but also allows you to move more, so more room for this had to be designed in.

2. Helmet, roll bar/cage, and 5/6 point harness. As you will be the engineer of this system, you are taking a chance that you may not fully understand how it will perform in a collision (without tests with crash test dummys - ie - you are the crash test dummy). This is a complete system and for it to work you must use all three parts - the helmet, the bar/cage, and the harness. Your body will take much higher "g" forces as a harness has almost no "give" (to prevent you from hitting a bar). The cage or bar is designed to prevent the car from crushing you. The harness is designed to prevent you from being killed by hitting the cage/bar or car body. The helmet will probably not protect you if you hit the bar. It is there to protect you from flying debris such as parts of the car that manage to detach themselves.

If I had both systems in the car, and had to drive to the track, I think I would ensure the cage/bar was reasonably safe with the 3 pt. belt and use the 3 pt. Otherwise I'd use the harness or trailer the car. The harness is actually illegal on the street.

 

1. racing harnesses are designed to stretch. they do stretch. "a lot" More than your stock belt material...it just doesn't seem like it cause the stock belts move around so much. People wear full face helmets in race cars because the belts stretch so much that they often dent the steering wheel with the helmet in a frontal collision. You crash...you buy new harnesses cause the ones that went through the crash will have been stretched and no longer have as much "give" and are unsafe. Same kinda technology as climbing ropes...desiged to elongate X amount under load Y...once they've gone through that stretch...no going back.

2. racing helmets...SA2000 snell ratings etc...ARE designed to bounce off roll cages multiple times. They have a "signifigantly" stronger shell than motor cycle helmets(MA2000) but have the same internal foam structure. They are not just to protect from stuff flying around in the car. Pick up a SA2000 helmet and a MA2000 helmet...you will notice a "signifigant" weight difference...this is all from a thicker fiberglass(kevlar/carbon) shell that will not break/crack.

john

 

So let's say I'm taking my car off a 200 ft cliff and I have a 6-pt cage.. Should I wear a 3 pt belt or a 5 pt harness?

 

Doesn't matter, same results either way!

 

You can get a 8 point for $150 and a 10 point for $200 here... http://www.swracecars.com/ My 8 point just came today.

 

doesnt matter my ***!

ill atke the 3pnt..

with a 4 my nuts would be smashed!

 

True. If you are concerned with how they look to the coroner!

 

check the rules for the allowed sig size. thanks.

 

a guy I knew wrecked his integra type-r and his neck broke because of the harness. it caught his body, but his neck whipped so hard that it snapped. he was killed.

 

I like the second one..... what brand is it ?? where i can find it ??? thax ....