Recommend an exhaust to me...
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Joined: Sep 2001
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From: IN
The RB single tip is a straight through design. The RB dual tip is NOT. It has baffling inside the canister. The RB guys faxed me the section diagrams. Please note these section diagrams were of the RSR muffler designs. They've since gone back to their pre-RSR muffler designs.
I've never seen a section diagram of an M2 single or dual tip, so I have no idea.
MDC
www.autosportoufitters.com/mdc/
I've never seen a section diagram of an M2 single or dual tip, so I have no idea.
MDC
www.autosportoufitters.com/mdc/
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,131
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From: IN
Lunar 7,
My current Trust catback is much too loud. I'm guessing that over time (5 years), the muffling material has just burned up. I'm glad to know the power levels don't suffer from the much quieter M2 dual tip!
I can't wait to have my M2 dualie installed!
BTW, the Type RS brakes backing plates and hard lines will be arriving AFTER my March 23 Putnam Park track event, which means I won't be able to test the new Type RS brakes until April or May (the next track events on the calendar).
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
My current Trust catback is much too loud. I'm guessing that over time (5 years), the muffling material has just burned up. I'm glad to know the power levels don't suffer from the much quieter M2 dual tip!
I can't wait to have my M2 dualie installed!
BTW, the Type RS brakes backing plates and hard lines will be arriving AFTER my March 23 Putnam Park track event, which means I won't be able to test the new Type RS brakes until April or May (the next track events on the calendar).
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 302
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From: Inwood, Long Island
The RB single tip is a straight through design. The RB dual tip is NOT. It has baffling inside the canister. The RB guys faxed me the section diagrams.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and facts and "finally" clearing that up for everyone!
The Sloth
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 141
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From: South Florida
Mach2
Another thing to make the record right. The new RB dual tip muffler is a straight thru design, just got to WWW.racingbeat.com and see for yourself.
You obviously haven't a clue how a muffler deadens the sound.
You can have a straight thru design and still be relatively quite, the only thing you lose with going quiter is the weight savings. The quiter a straight thru design the larger the muffler housing needs to be to absorb the sound.
Another thing to make the record right. The new RB dual tip muffler is a straight thru design, just got to WWW.racingbeat.com and see for yourself.
You obviously haven't a clue how a muffler deadens the sound.
You can have a straight thru design and still be relatively quite, the only thing you lose with going quiter is the weight savings. The quiter a straight thru design the larger the muffler housing needs to be to absorb the sound.
Full Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 104
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From: Anchorage Alaska
From RB's site,
description of their single tip:
"the straight-thru design of this exhaust system has been designed to offer your RX-7 maximum turbo performance with a 12-13 horsepower gain"
description of their dual tip:
"the internal-Y, straight-thru design of this exhaust muffler has been designed to offer your RX-7 maximum turbo performance with a 12-13 horsepower gain"
from your previous comment I'm not holding up too much hope that you'll take back your comment, but this is for the benefit of others
Bob
description of their single tip:
"the straight-thru design of this exhaust system has been designed to offer your RX-7 maximum turbo performance with a 12-13 horsepower gain"
description of their dual tip:
"the internal-Y, straight-thru design of this exhaust muffler has been designed to offer your RX-7 maximum turbo performance with a 12-13 horsepower gain"
from your previous comment I'm not holding up too much hope that you'll take back your comment, but this is for the benefit of others
Bob
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 302
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From: Inwood, Long Island
Alaskan7,
actually I would be more than happy to take back my "initial" comment on the RB dual tip's performance, if someone is able to prove that I'm wrong with nice hard facts. I really don't go by what websites write about their "own" products. It's called good marketing. As for my previous remark, I was just replying to a direct insult. Not here to start any wars.
actually I would be more than happy to take back my "initial" comment on the RB dual tip's performance, if someone is able to prove that I'm wrong with nice hard facts. I really don't go by what websites write about their "own" products. It's called good marketing. As for my previous remark, I was just replying to a direct insult. Not here to start any wars.
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Perhaps you can explain why the burden of proof is upon those who wish to prove you wrong, instead of on you to prove your assumptions based on (as you stated) looking at the design and concluding that it didn't flow any better than stock. No empirical data, just a snap judgement based on configuration. You're the one making unproven presumptions. Shouldn't the burden of proof rest on your shoulders?
Since the Racing Beat muffler is quieter than any of the obnoxious single tip designs, it's probably valid to say that it does not flow as well and adds more backpressure. What is not justifiable to say is that it doesn't flow any better than a stock muffler and is a "waste of money" when you have no proof whatsoever to back up that pronouncement.
At high rpm on a modified car, The Racing Beat muffler is likely more restrictive than another design and horsepower will be somewhat lower, but it will not be a drastic difference. In other words, you're not going to lose 50 horsepower just because you chose the Racing Beat twin tip over a cannister design.
YOU prove that you're right. Until that point, we'll go on believing (and rightfully so) that the Racing Beat muffler is a good flowing, quiet, performance muffler with stock appearance. We'll also go on believing (and rightfully so) that "you and your money are soon parted". I'm sure you can figure out the proverb in question and how it applies...
Contrary to popular belief, an exhaust doesn't have to look like a cannon in order to perform well.
Since the Racing Beat muffler is quieter than any of the obnoxious single tip designs, it's probably valid to say that it does not flow as well and adds more backpressure. What is not justifiable to say is that it doesn't flow any better than a stock muffler and is a "waste of money" when you have no proof whatsoever to back up that pronouncement.
At high rpm on a modified car, The Racing Beat muffler is likely more restrictive than another design and horsepower will be somewhat lower, but it will not be a drastic difference. In other words, you're not going to lose 50 horsepower just because you chose the Racing Beat twin tip over a cannister design.
YOU prove that you're right. Until that point, we'll go on believing (and rightfully so) that the Racing Beat muffler is a good flowing, quiet, performance muffler with stock appearance. We'll also go on believing (and rightfully so) that "you and your money are soon parted". I'm sure you can figure out the proverb in question and how it applies...
Contrary to popular belief, an exhaust doesn't have to look like a cannon in order to perform well.
Last edited by jimlab; Mar 5, 2002 at 05:42 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 302
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From: Inwood, Long Island
Jimlab,
I see where this thread is going......Absolutely nowhere. You made a few good points, but I only typed what my "opinion" was to begin with. I'm not and was never trying to prove that my exhaust is any better then all the others. Actually I really don't care. If it suits you, then by all means go get um. To each his own......
I see where this thread is going......Absolutely nowhere. You made a few good points, but I only typed what my "opinion" was to begin with. I'm not and was never trying to prove that my exhaust is any better then all the others. Actually I really don't care. If it suits you, then by all means go get um. To each his own......
going ls
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 602
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From: South Florida
Originally posted by GotBoostd7
But the Super Dragger is actually very nice. It's very quite cruising, mellow and rumbly at idle, and not very harsh up top. It's agressive, but not over the top. Too bad it costs ~$1000
But the Super Dragger is actually very nice. It's very quite cruising, mellow and rumbly at idle, and not very harsh up top. It's agressive, but not over the top. Too bad it costs ~$1000
It's never fast enough...
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,760
Likes: 3
From: Miami - Given 1st place as the POOREST city in the US as per the federal government
I hate those big single tips. I mean, I REALLY hate em. Sorry guys. No offense 
Personally, I have a REALLY old dual tipped Borla. I'm upgrading soon to another internally y-piped Borla with a 3" inch inlet and dual 2.5" outlets. It needs a full custom install, though, but for the sound I get, it's well worth it.
The borla I have now is just a 10 year old stock cat back they made in the begining that is now discontinued. It's only a 2.5" inlet and dual 1 3/4" outlets, which is why I need to upgrade.
Personally, I have a REALLY old dual tipped Borla. I'm upgrading soon to another internally y-piped Borla with a 3" inch inlet and dual 2.5" outlets. It needs a full custom install, though, but for the sound I get, it's well worth it.
The borla I have now is just a 10 year old stock cat back they made in the begining that is now discontinued. It's only a 2.5" inlet and dual 1 3/4" outlets, which is why I need to upgrade.
I'm in the market for a quieter exhaust for my FD. So I came across this thread.
I find it hard to believe that you can rate exhaust flow characteristics based on the mechnical look of the exhaust (piping, canister, what not). For the piping, you want to minimize bends and splits for maximum flow. You also have to consider how noise reduction (muffler) is designed (resonation cancellation, etc). There are various ways to muffle the sound of an exhaust and each method has it's pros and cons.
Contrary to my conversation with a fellow FC tuner:
Sound waves are not directly dependent on flow.
In other words, you can't rate flow characteristics based on noise decibel levels since noise travels as a wave and the exhaust flow (pulses) travel like particles.
When I changed my exhausts (several downpipes, midpipes, Greddy catback, Apexi can, etc), I found that a good flowing design will definitely be noticeable in the high-mid range to upper range rpm. I didn't notice MUCH on the low end.
Remember that the "feeling" associated with the exhaust isn't directly related to hp or rwhp. It's the torque that you're "feeling."
Once you get past the cosmetics of exhausts (look, sound), you'll see that most of the exhausts will provide very similar performance with a stock set-up.
It's a matter of your own taste.
An FC tuner I'm good friends with pushes for the loud, hi-flowing exhausts and wants all performance.
Another FC tuner friend wants performance, but is willing to sacrifice a little performance for something more quiet.
btw, the silencers help, but 7dB isn't 50% of the sound coming out of the exhaust. It definitely reduces power.
It may have been my boost controller a year ago, but I thought the silencer also affected my boost rate.
I find it hard to believe that you can rate exhaust flow characteristics based on the mechnical look of the exhaust (piping, canister, what not). For the piping, you want to minimize bends and splits for maximum flow. You also have to consider how noise reduction (muffler) is designed (resonation cancellation, etc). There are various ways to muffle the sound of an exhaust and each method has it's pros and cons.
Contrary to my conversation with a fellow FC tuner:
Sound waves are not directly dependent on flow.
In other words, you can't rate flow characteristics based on noise decibel levels since noise travels as a wave and the exhaust flow (pulses) travel like particles.
When I changed my exhausts (several downpipes, midpipes, Greddy catback, Apexi can, etc), I found that a good flowing design will definitely be noticeable in the high-mid range to upper range rpm. I didn't notice MUCH on the low end.
Remember that the "feeling" associated with the exhaust isn't directly related to hp or rwhp. It's the torque that you're "feeling."
Once you get past the cosmetics of exhausts (look, sound), you'll see that most of the exhausts will provide very similar performance with a stock set-up.
It's a matter of your own taste.
An FC tuner I'm good friends with pushes for the loud, hi-flowing exhausts and wants all performance.
Another FC tuner friend wants performance, but is willing to sacrifice a little performance for something more quiet.
btw, the silencers help, but 7dB isn't 50% of the sound coming out of the exhaust. It definitely reduces power.
It may have been my boost controller a year ago, but I thought the silencer also affected my boost rate.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,131
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From: IN
The current RB Dual Tips are their pre-RSR muffler designs. The RSR mufflers used baffles...I'm betting the RSR mufflers didn't flow as well as their old Y-pipe-in-the-muffler design, and thus the switch back (I have no data, just conjecture!).
The RSR, all-SS full polished dual tip system was $649, and the MS dual polished-tip was like $550 or something...
RB had trouble supplying the RSR dual tip MS designs, as it seems they were always out of stock when I'd call to order one back in '99-'00
Now RB's systems are $475 for the single tip, and $515 for the dual tip, but these are the same systems they were selling about 5-6 years ago!
Personally I like the RSR mufflers' aesthetic appearance...
From what I've read on these boards, it seems the M2 Dual Tip is the logical choice for the "sleeper" look. Lunar 7 posted a nice review on this exhaust, and from what I recall, the dual tips are extensions of separate tubes inside the muffler canister... I also like the nearly straight tubing the M2 uses. I just have a problem with M2's weld aesthetics...not the nicest, but I'm sure M2's welds are tight!
The RSR, all-SS full polished dual tip system was $649, and the MS dual polished-tip was like $550 or something...
RB had trouble supplying the RSR dual tip MS designs, as it seems they were always out of stock when I'd call to order one back in '99-'00
Now RB's systems are $475 for the single tip, and $515 for the dual tip, but these are the same systems they were selling about 5-6 years ago!
Personally I like the RSR mufflers' aesthetic appearance...
From what I've read on these boards, it seems the M2 Dual Tip is the logical choice for the "sleeper" look. Lunar 7 posted a nice review on this exhaust, and from what I recall, the dual tips are extensions of separate tubes inside the muffler canister... I also like the nearly straight tubing the M2 uses. I just have a problem with M2's weld aesthetics...not the nicest, but I'm sure M2's welds are tight!
Last edited by SleepR1; Apr 12, 2002 at 01:30 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,131
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From: IN
I'll have 5-year-old Trust catback (now known as Greddy Sport catback) for sale once my RB dual tip comes in...
The muffler canister and tip could use a good polishing, and the system is a bit louder than the newer Greddys (or maybe the glass packs are all burned up)...
$95 reserves it...
You pick it up at Advanced Import Motorsports Tuning www.AIMTuning.Com 298F Gasoline Alley, Indianapolis IN 46222, 317-381-0898
The muffler canister and tip could use a good polishing, and the system is a bit louder than the newer Greddys (or maybe the glass packs are all burned up)...
$95 reserves it...
You pick it up at Advanced Import Motorsports Tuning www.AIMTuning.Com 298F Gasoline Alley, Indianapolis IN 46222, 317-381-0898
Last edited by SleepR1; Apr 12, 2002 at 10:59 PM.
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