Gargamel

Just doing some thinking. Compare the price of the 4 rotor engine to the price of what pettit charges for a 3 rotor conversion. You can have the 4 rotor engine installed and running for around the same price as pettit sells their 3 rotor engine package.

4 rotor engine $28,000
Subframe, intake, ignition, computer = around 12K or cheaper.

Total 40K.

Doesn't pettit charge 40K for their 3 rotor package?

PVerdieck

Do some more thinking.

Pettit gives you a running car.

All you have, is a 4 rotor block and eshaft for 35K. Add in a good single or twin turbo and you are at 38.5 If you think the rest of the parts, installation and tuning will run you 1.5K you are high.

You can get a 3 rotor block for 6K, its 29-34 K in additional work to get the rest of the parts, installation, etc.

Gargamel

What the hell are you talking about?

Did you not read the pricing?

The block does not cost $35,000. The 4 rotor block costs $28,000.

My theory states that you will be doing the installation/tuning yourself.

All the fabrication will be paid for with the remaining $12,000.

Intake/throttle bodies/cable = $1,200
Subframe modified = $600
Tranny mount = $30
Driveshaft = $200
Header = $300
Ecu/ignition = $5,000
Radiator = $300
Fuel = $2,000
Oil pump/lines = $500
Alternator/bracket = $200

I'm probably missing a few things but we're still right at 10G.

rotary-tt

How about: Modify Firewall to fit $$

Gargamel

No modifying of the firewall is needed. The modified subframe will drop the engine and push it back.

cavellm

And just for reliability sake, I'd go with a 4 rotor N/A than a turbo 3 rotor.

If it's making 650hp, that's plenty. Is that with stock porting?

I wonder what a bridgeported 4 rotor would sound like at idle?

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

I am almost 100% positive that it is based on a 12a, so in reality it would be a 24a engine, not a 26b.

Gargamel

perif

Gargamel

never claimed it was a 26b.

SPOautos

Pettits price, is total turn key. You drop your car off then come back with a check and drive away.

Exactly what all do you get for 28K? Even the cheapest 20B subframe costs around $1500. Then your talking about doing a custom uim, lim, you need a throttle body, exhaust manifold, I dont know what water pump you'd need or if a stock one would suffice (prob not). There there is the issue of when you push the engine back where does the shifter hit inside the car? A total fuel system, a computer system set up and running.

There are MANY things that need to be addressed. This is the same way people feel about 20B's....ahhh I can do it sooo much cheaper myself, I'll just fab this and fab that and next thing you know thier car has been sitting up for 2 years and still isnt anywhere close to being a well sorted out car. A large majority of that price Pettit charges is to cover development and labor.

STEPHEN

Gargamel

I already addressed the costs of everything you mentioned. No uim or lim is needed. I local shop will build the subframe for 600. The shifter will only be set back a few inches so a sawzaw and bondo will fix that problem.

SPOautos

Why isnt a uim or lim needed? Your going to have to customs make something.

Custom fabbing is expensive, if you can get a good working subframe and bump steer correction setup worked out for $600 then you need to start selling them cause you can clear $1000 per order on them

In addition you didnt address the "cost" of the labor. Your comparing the price of something totally done for you to a total one off project your doing and fabing yourself

Also, how do you know the shifter would only move a couple inches and what would bondo fix? You going to bondo the plastic in your center console after cutting it up? Is it going to be in the right spot to hit your hand?

there are a lot of details that would need to be addressed before jumping into a project like this. Hell most people can hardly get the 20B in the car and running well and it all the parts can be bought for it.

What about a oil pan? What water pump? Are you going to run a/c or p/s? Will you need to redo the suspension to make up for the weight? I believe Pettits setup comes with suspension upgrades.

I'd pretty much say thats apples to oranges man

STEPHEN

ReodDai

$28,000 (block) + $5,611 (shaft) = $33, 611 he never said the block cost $35000 he said the block and eccentric shaft did, and with tax he is probably right . Also do you get rotors with this block? For some reason I doubt it.
Go look at what pettit actually does to the car when doing a 20b conversion. They don't just stick the engine in and make it work, they also rework the turbos to work with the engine, and more. It could be just me but me giving someone $40k and having them give me a car that RUNS 11s back, sounds alot better than me giving someone $40k and they give me and engine and a note that says "Good luck" in a random oriental language.

Gargamel

A custom intake runner with throttle bodies would be used.

Davinci motorworks will make the subframe for 600.

The cost of labor would be doing it yourself (Except the fab work).

Jokingly, the bondo was mentioned to remake the center shifter panel. It wouldn't be moved too far back that it's uncomfortable. Remember, the 23A isn't a very big motor so it won't need to be moved too awfully far back.

The block that I mentioned comes with a block already assembled. It comes with the waterpump attached. The oil pan can be made by any fab shop for around $200. Why would anyone want powersteering or AC?

You're right about the suspension. I doubt it would affect going down the road in a straight line.

Gargamel

The engine block comes assembled. Meaning, it comes with everything a mazda reman would come with (Basically).

BATMAN

that's what she said the first time

BATMAN

or with a running start

PVerdieck

lets try again

block: 28000
turbo & kit
Custom Manifold: 600
Custom Downpipe: 300
Wastegate HKS Racing: 450
Turbo itself: 1200
Oil Lines, fittings, etc: 100
clutch 2disk & flywheel 1500
1000HP fuel pump 300
BOV 200
IC 1000
Custom IC piping 500
Engine Mounts 500
FD Subframe 1000
4 more fuel inj 800
8 ign. coils and wires 400
High performance radiator 400
Haltech E6K 1100
Custom anti-sway bar 600
Tranny mount 30
Driveshaft 200
AEM C2DI 8 ch Ig amp 450
Oil pump/lines 500
Alternator/bracket 200
New rims + tires 3000
Rear Wheel flares 300
Kaaz differential +oil 860
Mazda reinforc. PPF 450
Chromaloy axles 800


I think we are closer, but we aren't their yet. I think there are fuel lines, rails, and oil lines, extra oil cooler, etc
needed.

Lets throw in some more 4000

49740 w/o tax

paw140

Does anyone else think $28k is a bit ridiculous for this motor? Kind of hard to justify when you can get a 3-rotor for around $5k and make all the horsepower you could ever want in a street car.

Instead of comparing the cost of doing a 4-rotor install yourself w/ Pettit's deal, you should be comparing the price difference between a 3-rotor or 4-rotor install assuming you do it yourself. With Pettit's deal you will get a well-sorted car that's ready to drive. Doing the 4-rotor install yourself, you will probably end up with a clusterf*ck and a 3 year project.

rpm_pwr

You look and a 650HP PP short block and decide it needs a turbo kit? I think 99% of FD owners would be happy with a NA street ported 480-odd HP four rotor.

-pete

rx7ttlm

I am working on a 20B 3 rotor conversion myself, and thats a big pain in the ***, let alone adding another rotor housing and side housing into the mix. Think about it this way gents, if its based on the mazda 4 rotor 26b (using the rotors and rotorhousings from a 13b) its going to be long as ****. You will have to either adapt the subframe to mount the engine aft of the steering rack. or relocate the steering rack and fab some new spindles to correct the bump steer problem that will follow. So realisticly, your cuttin the firewall too. Fabbing a new tranny tunnel. Doin a lotta trail fitting. so lets say even if you do most of it yourself your lookin at about 2 months of work just for the subframe. and for engine management its going to be a bitch. cause the 26b that i know of from the Le Mans Road racing cars has a variable geometry intake that changes based on RPM and its an NA motor. Yes i said NA. lol. so your looking at another 6k like it or not just for the ECU, like a Motec M8 or the M880. plus the money to fly one of the tech reps out to help you play with it and tune the damn thing at a cost of 600 per day, plus 275 per day of travel, plus a nice fat fee for comin and spendin time with ya. (not like i have done that lol) Don't bother with halteck there. then add about 1500 for the wiring harness alone, plus ignition, add another 500 in connectors.... can ya see where this is going? and i dont know about you, but i wouldn't run a 300 dollar radiator on an engine that cost me that much hell the SR radiator that i have for my FD was 500, so i would go to CR racing to have them fab me a radiator, at a cost of about 1200 big ones. (they make radiators for nextel cup cars and CART racecars). so that leaves us with a helova lot left. so ya still dont have a clutch, so your lookin at an AP racing 3 disc 5.5inch carbon/ carbon clutch, cause anything else would get nuked. thats about 2 grand, a driveshaft would be the cheep part at about 500 bucks. i would laugh at ya if ya tried to run the stock rear end. not to mention a tranny that could hold up to the torque and abuse that the 26b is capable of throwin downabout 500 lb ft of torque. so if you want it to last your lookin at the low end of a hewland Sgt 5 speed and thats 7 grand, but since we are goin to excess we might as well throw in a IGT-C 6 speed and it actually has 7 speeds, 6 forward and one reverse and it was the same tranny used in 90% of the japan GT300 cars in 2002 . now for 11,000 bucks i would say that was a deal lol. but seeing as the SGT is only rated at 450 Lb Ft of torque you might as well get the IGT-C.

so lets just see where that puts us.

-28,000 for the engine and god ***** you the variable intake with the deal, hell lets say its on sale for $26,000
-ECU $6,000
-a$$hole from motec to help you tune the damn thing at least $1200 min
-$2,000 for wiring harness, sensors and other shyt
-1200 for radiator
-$2000 for a 3 disc carbon/carbon clutch, more if you want to have a costom sprung disc clutch made for you so you can try to drive the damn things on the street
-$500 for a custom driveshaft
- and 11,000 for a tranny that wont **** itself, dont forget to add about 700 plus for a costom bellhousing.


-$49,900 without belhousing, subframe or a whole lotta anything.

so lets all sit down and think about this. it might be a better deal to take your FD to acosta and hand them your FD and a check for $38,000 and a couple months later they hand you your FD back with a 500-600 hp 20B on low boost and pump gas with a top end of 800 hp on C16.

cavellm

If I'm giving someone forty thousand dollars to make my car faster, it SURE as hell better run faster than 11's!!!!

rx7ttlm

are you kidding man? lol a subframe that drops it down enough that you dont have to modify the firewall.... first off... no such thing, i know someone here in SD that is doing a 4 rotor single turbo, yes 4 rotor single turbo and there is no way in hell that you could build a subframe without touching the firewall unless you put the steering rack on the bumper. lol. and if your doing it for better performance, why would you stick a 4 rotor in there unless you just drag race, but for the sake of argument, you want to have a 4 rotor road race sort of thing goin on. wouldnt you want to maintain the fuxin sweet ballance the FD has? so move the thing back, WAY back, note get it to close to the firewall and your right leg will cook on long drives in the summer (i know just a little about that lol)

rx7ttlm

cavellm- with 600 hp, sintered metalic or carbon clutch, M300 axles, a couple spair trannies and some 285's outback you could lay down some 10's lol

Gargamel

No need to touch the firewall.