rattle can engine bay? bake repainted parts? need advice about paint please
12-20-12, 02:32 PM
#1
rattle can engine bay? bake repainted parts? need advice about paint please
i've been working on my 93 FD for awhile and now that the engine is gone and i've got an empty engine bay i want to repaint some of the rusty or discolored brackets and also the bay itself.
so far i've started with little things like the brake booster and associated brackets and things. i've sandblasted them and began rattle canning them. the new paint looks nice but, it's alittle too glossy for my taste. i'll use what i've got as a base coat it guess then find something more satin for the top coat.
what i'm wondering is, after the parts are painted, can i bake them in the oven for awhile to really seal the paint so that it's more durable and can take alittle bit of abuse? i want the parts to be able to take a hit with a wrench without chipping. i think i recall reading that i could bake the parts at 200 degrees for awhile. i can't remember exactly how long tho. also, one of the parts i'm repainting is the brake booster. would it be safe to bake that as well if i took off the rubber boot on the back?
i was also wondering about painting my engine bay. not completely but, i'd like to retouch a good bit of it. i was at the parts store the other nite and was looking at the color matched ratte can paints. i was wondering how well this stuff would hold up and also how well the color matches. if i did use the spray can, is there anyway to make it more durable? i know when painting cars sometimes the paint is baked on. i don't suppose going over the paint with a heat gun would do anything huh.
i looked on the door sill badge for the paint code and found "BODY COLOR: NT." that can't be the paint code right? i've got a 93 FD and it's the standard red color. i'm sure i can find the rattle can color but what's the color or paint code?
anyone have any experience with the rattle cans that would be any help?
any input is appreciated. i've thought about buying a spray gun and trying to paint the bay myself but, i don't think my compressor could keep up. i could always go really slow i guess but, it'd be cheaper with the rattle cans and much simpler.
so far i've started with little things like the brake booster and associated brackets and things. i've sandblasted them and began rattle canning them. the new paint looks nice but, it's alittle too glossy for my taste. i'll use what i've got as a base coat it guess then find something more satin for the top coat.
what i'm wondering is, after the parts are painted, can i bake them in the oven for awhile to really seal the paint so that it's more durable and can take alittle bit of abuse? i want the parts to be able to take a hit with a wrench without chipping. i think i recall reading that i could bake the parts at 200 degrees for awhile. i can't remember exactly how long tho. also, one of the parts i'm repainting is the brake booster. would it be safe to bake that as well if i took off the rubber boot on the back?
i was also wondering about painting my engine bay. not completely but, i'd like to retouch a good bit of it. i was at the parts store the other nite and was looking at the color matched ratte can paints. i was wondering how well this stuff would hold up and also how well the color matches. if i did use the spray can, is there anyway to make it more durable? i know when painting cars sometimes the paint is baked on. i don't suppose going over the paint with a heat gun would do anything huh.
i looked on the door sill badge for the paint code and found "BODY COLOR: NT." that can't be the paint code right? i've got a 93 FD and it's the standard red color. i'm sure i can find the rattle can color but what's the color or paint code?
anyone have any experience with the rattle cans that would be any help?
any input is appreciated. i've thought about buying a spray gun and trying to paint the bay myself but, i don't think my compressor could keep up. i could always go really slow i guess but, it'd be cheaper with the rattle cans and much simpler.
12-20-12, 03:11 PM
#4
In my experience painting parts for my car and at work on industrial fabrication I have found the number one thing you can do to keep the paint from chipping is to prepare the surface well for adhesion.
Your sandblasting the brackets etc is definitely a good first step as it provides a nice surface for mechanical adhesion.
Next I would really recommend treating steel surfaces with phosphoric acid, an etching primer and then the paint.
On aluminum I would use a chromate converter, aluminum etching primer and then paint.
On plastic use a plastic primer and a flexible plastic paint like the Fusion line.
As far as rattle can paints I have had good luck with epoxy enamels as they cure hard or go the opposite way and use a vinyl based truck bead liner on parts that will see a lot of localized flexing or need strength against impact chipping.
On harder paints it seems like a thinner coat not a thicker one will provide chip resistance as it can flex without cracking.
I would follow the manufacturers instructions on curing, I haven't had luck trying to bake rattle can paints.
You could buff up your shiny parts with super fine steel wool to break the gloss instead of another satin coat, but that won't work on parts with crevices.
Satin automotive trim paint provides a good look, is durable and comes in rattle can.
As for the whole engine bay, it will be REALLY hard to paint match your body color and get a smooth, shiny, even application with rattle can. If you want it nice I recommend prepping it yourself and finding someone to come over with their compressor and gun to shoot it.
If you are ok with a different color and/or texture you have better rattle can options. Fog the heck out of it for an even dull look or go with something with texture like truck bed liner (which you can get in colors, or even top coat with plastic paint.)
I am sure there are members with more experience painting that can add to or correct what I have written.
Your sandblasting the brackets etc is definitely a good first step as it provides a nice surface for mechanical adhesion.
Next I would really recommend treating steel surfaces with phosphoric acid, an etching primer and then the paint.
On aluminum I would use a chromate converter, aluminum etching primer and then paint.
On plastic use a plastic primer and a flexible plastic paint like the Fusion line.
As far as rattle can paints I have had good luck with epoxy enamels as they cure hard or go the opposite way and use a vinyl based truck bead liner on parts that will see a lot of localized flexing or need strength against impact chipping.
On harder paints it seems like a thinner coat not a thicker one will provide chip resistance as it can flex without cracking.
I would follow the manufacturers instructions on curing, I haven't had luck trying to bake rattle can paints.
You could buff up your shiny parts with super fine steel wool to break the gloss instead of another satin coat, but that won't work on parts with crevices.
Satin automotive trim paint provides a good look, is durable and comes in rattle can.
As for the whole engine bay, it will be REALLY hard to paint match your body color and get a smooth, shiny, even application with rattle can. If you want it nice I recommend prepping it yourself and finding someone to come over with their compressor and gun to shoot it.
If you are ok with a different color and/or texture you have better rattle can options. Fog the heck out of it for an even dull look or go with something with texture like truck bed liner (which you can get in colors, or even top coat with plastic paint.)
I am sure there are members with more experience painting that can add to or correct what I have written.
12-20-12, 04:31 PM
#5
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
This is a good opportunity to learn doing some basic auto body painting.
Go to Harbor Freight and get an HVLP paint gun, might want to get a smaller "touchup" gun. Hell, this one is on sale for $15! -
20 oz. HVLP Gravity Feed Spray Gun
Next, you'll need paint. Go find out locally where the autobody paint supply place is. Go in there with your paint code and tell them you need some paint, you just need a small amount, so they'll probably sell you a pint.
From the autobody place, get -
- pint of paint
- hardener for that paint
- reducer for that paint
- a few plastic mixing cups
- wood stirring rods
- GREEN auto body masking tape
- Auto body masking paper
- Paint strainers
You need the autobody stuff, the blue painter's tape will bleed through and react with the paint. The most expensive part there will be the hardener, that ****'s pricey.
Now, go to Lowe's and get -
- cartridge respirator
- box of Nitrile gloves
- Roll of blue shop towels
- Some clear plastic painting tarps, the cheap throwaway ones
- Red scotch-brite pads
- Wax/grease remover (this is a paint prep stuff, not a general cleaner)
You'll probably need more stuff, but that will get you started.
On the area you want to paint, CLEAN IT WELL, get all the crap off it, degrease it, get it spotless. Then, scuff it GOOD with the scotch brite. Get a good mechanical tooth to it. Get some good rattle can primer and prime any spots that need it.
Time to mask off. Unbolt and remove anything you can, if you just get it out of the way that's a huge help. Mask off GOOD. You may want to make a "tent" of the tarps around the area you're working, staple them to the ceiling with a staple gun. That paint goes EVERY damn where like you have no idea.
Now, paint time. The paint store will tell you the ratios to mix the autobody paint, it's usually 4-1-1. When you open the hardener, pour what you need out and CLOSE IT UP. It reacts with the moisture in the air, and as soon as you open it, the clock is running.
Mix it up good in the cup with the stir stick - stir it and say the ABC song to yourself twice to insure you've got a good mix. Then, pour it through the filter funnel into the gun.
Put on your respirator, adjust the pressure down on the compressor to what it says in the manual for the gun - like 45 psi or so. Do some test sprays on some cardboard, if all looks good, go for it. Put on a light mist coat, let it cure for 10-15 minutes, then put on a wet coat.
Give a LOT of time to dry before removing the masking. Finally, clean everything SUPER good - if you let paint sit in the gun, it will get nasty. You can use the reducer to clean it all up, get it SPOTLESS and the gun will work good next time.
It's really not as hard as it seems, and real autobody paint is very hard and has a great finish. It's fun to work with too, I've also done some paint work on my car and a project car I've had and it's rewarding. If it doesn't turn out right or messes up, just sand it down and try again.
Dale
Go to Harbor Freight and get an HVLP paint gun, might want to get a smaller "touchup" gun. Hell, this one is on sale for $15! -
20 oz. HVLP Gravity Feed Spray Gun
Next, you'll need paint. Go find out locally where the autobody paint supply place is. Go in there with your paint code and tell them you need some paint, you just need a small amount, so they'll probably sell you a pint.
From the autobody place, get -
- pint of paint
- hardener for that paint
- reducer for that paint
- a few plastic mixing cups
- wood stirring rods
- GREEN auto body masking tape
- Auto body masking paper
- Paint strainers
You need the autobody stuff, the blue painter's tape will bleed through and react with the paint. The most expensive part there will be the hardener, that ****'s pricey.
Now, go to Lowe's and get -
- cartridge respirator
- box of Nitrile gloves
- Roll of blue shop towels
- Some clear plastic painting tarps, the cheap throwaway ones
- Red scotch-brite pads
- Wax/grease remover (this is a paint prep stuff, not a general cleaner)
You'll probably need more stuff, but that will get you started.
On the area you want to paint, CLEAN IT WELL, get all the crap off it, degrease it, get it spotless. Then, scuff it GOOD with the scotch brite. Get a good mechanical tooth to it. Get some good rattle can primer and prime any spots that need it.
Time to mask off. Unbolt and remove anything you can, if you just get it out of the way that's a huge help. Mask off GOOD. You may want to make a "tent" of the tarps around the area you're working, staple them to the ceiling with a staple gun. That paint goes EVERY damn where like you have no idea.
Now, paint time. The paint store will tell you the ratios to mix the autobody paint, it's usually 4-1-1. When you open the hardener, pour what you need out and CLOSE IT UP. It reacts with the moisture in the air, and as soon as you open it, the clock is running.
Mix it up good in the cup with the stir stick - stir it and say the ABC song to yourself twice to insure you've got a good mix. Then, pour it through the filter funnel into the gun.
Put on your respirator, adjust the pressure down on the compressor to what it says in the manual for the gun - like 45 psi or so. Do some test sprays on some cardboard, if all looks good, go for it. Put on a light mist coat, let it cure for 10-15 minutes, then put on a wet coat.
Give a LOT of time to dry before removing the masking. Finally, clean everything SUPER good - if you let paint sit in the gun, it will get nasty. You can use the reducer to clean it all up, get it SPOTLESS and the gun will work good next time.
It's really not as hard as it seems, and real autobody paint is very hard and has a great finish. It's fun to work with too, I've also done some paint work on my car and a project car I've had and it's rewarding. If it doesn't turn out right or messes up, just sand it down and try again.
Dale
12-20-12, 05:18 PM
#7
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
The stock engine bay paint (at least on my car) is single stage. If you do wanna do clear, it's more materials, cost, and work.
I've only done single stage up to this point, but hey, go forth, experiment!
Dale
I've only done single stage up to this point, but hey, go forth, experiment!
Dale
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12-21-12, 08:02 AM
#10
As already mentioned, as long as you do some good prep you can get decent results going with the rattle can approach. Just make sure to use a paint which can take the engine bay heat. I did a little touch up a few years back:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...4/#post4215943
It will not be as durable as a good professional job but it can look better than doing nothing.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...4/#post4215943
It will not be as durable as a good professional job but it can look better than doing nothing.
12-21-12, 10:44 AM
#11
My engine bay is rattle canned satin black. It's help up ok. There is a part where brake fluid got on it and the paint got destroyed but I don't think alot of things hold up to break fluid. I remember seeing a chip or two as well but on the whole, I guess it held up well.
12-23-12, 06:29 AM
#12
I've always used acrylic laquer in a spray can for touch up work to small components.
Epoxy enamel is rubbish, because it dulls and doesnt have the ability to be cut/compounded well.
On a typical job, I will pull the component off the car (lets say this is the stock throttle body plastic compression elbow) I'll do the following:
*Prep wash/ wax+grease remover to get it really clean. Wash with water and repeat until all the oil and debris is clear from the seams and pores of the part.
*Check for surface damage- scratches, dents, plastic moulding imperfections and seam lines. Use appropriate grade of wet/dry sandpaper to smooth out areas that need work, and feather the repair out into surrounding material until there is no edge. Smooth part down with something like P1000 grit fine paper, which roughs the surface up just enough to help with paint adhesion.
*Since this is the plastic throttle body elbow, apply even coat of flexible plastic adhesion primer. Check for imperfections again, and rub over with P1200 very fine grit paper. Apply one final coat of plastic adhesion primer when happy.
*Apply color. I use acrylic lacquer for its durability and ability to be cut & compounded to a shine. I'll use a few light coats, and smooth the second last coat with P1200 grit paper. Then apply final color coat.
*Some people sand the final color coat before the clearcoat. If its a metallic color, NO. You will disrupt the position and effect of the metallic chips in the paint. Just clear straight over it.
For a solid color, you can rub the final color coat back before clear. But use ultra fine paper, or you will scratch the coat and the lock the scratching in, under the clear.
Personally, for most small parts, I will apply final coat color, then clear coat directly over, and then cut & compound the clear coat once it is hardened, the next day or so.
This is the amount of work that goes into every small part I repaint on my car. It is also the reason I need to have a very understanding girlfriend, who understands how far my OCD goes when it comes to the car.
For panel work on the exterior of the car, you're talking more attention to detail again. You should have an adequate compressor, water trap system, tack rags, backup large volume air tank and a quality spray gun, like Iwata or similar, with appropriate adjustments and nozzle size. I do not like the gravity fed or "upside down/paint canister-above-gun" types. When full of paint, the balance of the gun is thrown off, and I dont like it. Also, dont go with these silly airless spray guns.
Get a body file/slapper, plus dollies and oxy/acetylene torch. Acrylic laquer or 2-pak lacquer for refinishing, your choice. Bear in mind acrylic is not fuel or solvent stable like 2 pak systems. I'll do a whole car in acrylic on the outside, and 2-pak in the engine bay, to keep things fuel & oil resistant in there.
Source: Father owned his own panel shop + automotive machining business. Both us brothers were taught from 7yrs+ practising on old Datsun wrecks and such
Epoxy enamel is rubbish, because it dulls and doesnt have the ability to be cut/compounded well.
On a typical job, I will pull the component off the car (lets say this is the stock throttle body plastic compression elbow) I'll do the following:
*Prep wash/ wax+grease remover to get it really clean. Wash with water and repeat until all the oil and debris is clear from the seams and pores of the part.
*Check for surface damage- scratches, dents, plastic moulding imperfections and seam lines. Use appropriate grade of wet/dry sandpaper to smooth out areas that need work, and feather the repair out into surrounding material until there is no edge. Smooth part down with something like P1000 grit fine paper, which roughs the surface up just enough to help with paint adhesion.
*Since this is the plastic throttle body elbow, apply even coat of flexible plastic adhesion primer. Check for imperfections again, and rub over with P1200 very fine grit paper. Apply one final coat of plastic adhesion primer when happy.
*Apply color. I use acrylic lacquer for its durability and ability to be cut & compounded to a shine. I'll use a few light coats, and smooth the second last coat with P1200 grit paper. Then apply final color coat.
*Some people sand the final color coat before the clearcoat. If its a metallic color, NO. You will disrupt the position and effect of the metallic chips in the paint. Just clear straight over it.
For a solid color, you can rub the final color coat back before clear. But use ultra fine paper, or you will scratch the coat and the lock the scratching in, under the clear.
Personally, for most small parts, I will apply final coat color, then clear coat directly over, and then cut & compound the clear coat once it is hardened, the next day or so.
This is the amount of work that goes into every small part I repaint on my car. It is also the reason I need to have a very understanding girlfriend, who understands how far my OCD goes when it comes to the car.
For panel work on the exterior of the car, you're talking more attention to detail again. You should have an adequate compressor, water trap system, tack rags, backup large volume air tank and a quality spray gun, like Iwata or similar, with appropriate adjustments and nozzle size. I do not like the gravity fed or "upside down/paint canister-above-gun" types. When full of paint, the balance of the gun is thrown off, and I dont like it. Also, dont go with these silly airless spray guns.
Get a body file/slapper, plus dollies and oxy/acetylene torch. Acrylic laquer or 2-pak lacquer for refinishing, your choice. Bear in mind acrylic is not fuel or solvent stable like 2 pak systems. I'll do a whole car in acrylic on the outside, and 2-pak in the engine bay, to keep things fuel & oil resistant in there.
Source: Father owned his own panel shop + automotive machining business. Both us brothers were taught from 7yrs+ practising on old Datsun wrecks and such
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2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
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