Ok guys,
I looked at the 5 pages of info we have on fd stuff and didnt find anything on installing race harnesses.
Does anyone know if a harness bar is absolutly required? or is there a safe propper way to install a pair of 4pt or 5pt harnesses with out roll bars or harness bars.
Does any one have QUALITY pics to put on this thread
And If a harness bar is required does anyone have quality pics of the instalation of the final product for future reference.
unless someone says to do other wise, i think im lookin at spending the extra 200-300 for the harness bar.
but could still use pics of a instalation.
And if there IS an older thread that i missed with this info already help me out.

http://www.schroth.com/installation-.../en/index.html
this link says this is all you need to know to intsall harnesses.

 

Ok, I'll take a stab at your questions.

Yes, there have been many discussions around this issue. I don't fault you for not finding them as sometimes it's hard to find the right info through all the threads.

For the lower mounting points, you can use the seat belt bolts which are standard bolts (not metric) for the lower straps. If you are going with a 5-point, you can use the 10mm bolt hole in the floor, but it's better if you drill a new hole in the proper location for the seat and using the proper mounting hardware. If you are using a 6-point, you can probably reuse the seat rail bolts for the other two mounting points.

For the shoulder straps, the stock rear tower bar is NOT a support bar. You cannot use it to hold harnesses. This gives you a few options for mounting the shoulder straps:

* drill a hole in the trunk area and use mounting plates with an eye bolt
* use an aftermarket harness bar
* use a rollbar/cage

It is NOT ok to mount the shoulder straps to the floor behind the seats. As for using a harness without a rollbar/cage, this can be dangerous depending on your use. OE seat belts are designed to allow you to bend or slide. With a harness, you are held upright. In the case of a rollover, if the roof caves in, your head will be the highest point in the car without a rollbar or cage if you are taller than your seat (which you most likely will be unless you are 4 ft tall). This puts your neck and spine in the direct path for possible injury.

Now, that is a rather extreme case, but it is possible and something you need to consider. I would not recommend someone run a harness without a rollbar or cage. Granted, I have done it in the past, but I would never recommend it to someone else.

 

BTW, here are some old pics of my M2 bar setup:

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...e/MVC-005F.JPG
http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...e/MVC-018F.JPG

I have since move to a Kirk Racing 4pt rollbar.

 

Good info Mahjik. I know I had never thought of the rolling scenario.

 

ok thanks. so now that you have a 4pt setup do you still have your interior plastics where the 4pt mounted or did you strip it.

 

With the Kirk Racing rollbar, you have two options:

1. Floor mount behind the seats
2. Mount in the rear bin location

I purchased a rollbar which mounts to the floor. With that, I lost the covers to the rear shock towers and the covers for the tool bins. You can get fancy like Crispy and make the plastics work with the bar:

http://reganrotaryracing.tripod.com/kirkroll.htm

 

that looks pretty nice. if you dont mind me asking how much does that 1 go for. my integras auto power 1 was an arm n a leg.

 

http://www.kirkracing.com/

http://www.carbonfiberhoods.net/poin...95-p-1485.html - $400.00 + shipping

They really are not too badly priced. And they are pretty widely used here on the forum. Several threads with install tips are also floating around on here.

 

I got mine through a GroupBuy on the forum a few years ago for around $330. With shipping, it was a about $400 through the GroupBuy. I would guess you are looking a little over $500 for a 4pt from Kirk shipped.

 

ok cool. the price still blows my autopower one outta the water

 

First, I fully concur with Manjik's statements.
What I will add is the question of your usage. Solo II, open track?
For auto-X'ing the belts are not so much for safety as for holding you tight in position and as such you can get away with mounting the 5 point center strap forward over the seat cushion down to the 10mm floor mat mounting point (for true safety, this is a No- No as the configuration would permit your body to slide down and forward) and the shoulder straps can be laid over the top of the strut tower bar (to improve lead angle to shoulders) back to a eyebolts (I used two) “ * drill a hole in the trunk area and use mounting plates with an eye bolt” Advise, pick an area between fuel tank and brake lines; if I remember correctly when I did this years ago before installing my Kirk 4-pt, I drilled up from bottom. Any usage other than Solo II, get at least a 4-pt, preferable a 6-pt cage.

 

well, my plans as of now are to do auto-x, solo II and drift, although there is a full track about 2 hours from where i live and wouldnt mind getting on that every once in a while. i have the money to do a cage and would like to keep most of the interior simple and clean because i do drive it all the time. and as for the harnesses i know there not the safest when it comes to daily driving and colisions ect. but i am looking for the snugness because of all the twisty turnies in my back yard aswell.
i appreciate the info guys

 

I wish we had nice twisty roads here

 

WOW thats a cool idea!

 

Fixed.

A shouldered eye bolt is meant for side/ swinging load and standard eye bolt is meant for vertical lifting with minimal load movement.

Standard eye bolt

Vs

Shouldered eye bolt

Further more:

When you drill the holes to mount your harness to the floor I suggest you weld additional plates on either the bottom of the floor (think 1/4" plate that is 4" x6")



kinda like this, but modify the idea to adapt to your application

You want to give you harness a thick well anchored piece of metal to bolt down to.

you want to spread out the trauma to the chassis, also whenever welding brace plates, make sure you round all the edges (NO SHARP EDGES) in an accident a sharp edge can act as a can opener and cut/ tear the thin shell material and cause failure.

1 isolated anchor point is not enough.

This is your safety, and the safety of your passenger.

another thing to think about is how tall you are, when selecting a harness bar or roll cage.

You want the rear harness straps to be mounted higher than your shoulders, so in the event of an accident your spine will not be compressed when force is applied to the shoulder straps.

I have seen many off the shelf (bolt in cages) that do not suit the driver.

I think there should be a stickied thread dedicated to aftermarkey/ custom safety restraints and measures to take.

There is a lot of great information on this forum, and sometimes it can really be hard to find.

there is more on this subject, just keep looking and always pull from multiple sources (don't take any 1 source as the absolute truth)

good luck, and keep us updated.

 

Here is a link regarding harness bar height

http://www.sparcousa.com/resourceFiles/16.pdf

A harness offers less protection than a seat belt if improperly installed.

 

great info guys. thanks

 

I didn't see this point made in the thread, but I just skimmed. If you really don't plan on doing much competitive driving with the car I would not get a harness. It looks like you want to do a good bit of competitive driving, but a harness is super uncomfortable if you daily drive the car. I don't drive mine on the street much but the inside edge of the harness constantly eats my neck skin where it touches. Just a thought, but I have a bride seat so you might not have the same problem I do.

 

You bought it from me and I own carbonfiberhoods.net too. Since I already had an account with Kirk Racing from the group buy, I tossed them up on there. Really not big sellers but I like the product.

 

I'm planning on using an eye bolt for my harnesses (lap belt mounts) but how do I clip my harness to the eye bolt? Do I look to use a carabiner? They're 3" harnesses. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks a lot!

 

Drilling into the body and installing a eye-bolt with a proper backing plate would be the easiest option and keep it off the strut brace.

http://www.fd3s.net/harness.html

 

I beleive 4pt harnesses are pretty much illegal in all sanctioned events.

 

Because they suck, there's no difference between a 4 or 3 in terms of protection really. I always use a 6 because it offers the best protection but its too close to the sensitive areas. haha

 

That is incorrect.

Schroth makes a 4 point harness that is much better than a 3 point.

Look for the info on their web site, and it has been discussed here as well.