Racer needs quicker boost response
09-17-03, 07:18 PM
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mythical Unicorn
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Racer needs quicker boost response
Guys I need your help. I have a 93 with sequential and PFC tuned to 364 at the wheel. I also have 4.88 gears in the rear, however I need quicker boost respons.
Any suggestions what we can do to help get quicker response. Scotty White has 400 lbs of torque at 1800 RPM's in his ZO6 so I need any help I can get.
Thanks for your help.
P.S. Let me know if you did any of the improvements what change you noticed.
My car is no slug but I want to do better and I need better response.
Thanks
Any suggestions what we can do to help get quicker response. Scotty White has 400 lbs of torque at 1800 RPM's in his ZO6 so I need any help I can get.
Thanks for your help.
P.S. Let me know if you did any of the improvements what change you noticed.
My car is no slug but I want to do better and I need better response.
Thanks
09-17-03, 07:42 PM
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The stock turbos spool instantly from 2800 rpm up, the 99-specs from about 2500-2600 rpm from what I've seen other people post. I don't know why you would need "quicker" boost response, if you are racing, you should never be in that rpm range anyway.
Are you using an aftermarket boost controller or the PFC to control your boost? Perhaps you have the wastegate set to open at too "mild" of a response, therefore slowing your spooling.
Are you using an aftermarket boost controller or the PFC to control your boost? Perhaps you have the wastegate set to open at too "mild" of a response, therefore slowing your spooling.
09-17-03, 07:45 PM
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i don't know if this is true....but here i go...
I never drove my FD with stock flywheel, i drove the car with lighten flywheel....if you want fast turbo response lighten flywheel maybe build up the boost quicker by very LITTLE. heavy flywheel (stock) will produce slow to more of a kick while boosting to boosted.
There are other things you can do, with your PFC playing around with your timing and fuel (low to mid area). Rally cars have KILLER low-mid tuning and high ends isn't really there compare to low-mid (rally cars have good HP figures and KILLER torq. figures). Also anti-lag on the turbos setting through PFC will QUICKen up your turbos but you better have money to buy another set if you run it for awhile, if you turbos are like 10,000miles or over, don't do it. Fresh turbos should be practiced with anti-lag. image....racing team changes there turbo like every round or every other....which means it get pretty crazy.
-joe
I never drove my FD with stock flywheel, i drove the car with lighten flywheel....if you want fast turbo response lighten flywheel maybe build up the boost quicker by very LITTLE. heavy flywheel (stock) will produce slow to more of a kick while boosting to boosted.
There are other things you can do, with your PFC playing around with your timing and fuel (low to mid area). Rally cars have KILLER low-mid tuning and high ends isn't really there compare to low-mid (rally cars have good HP figures and KILLER torq. figures). Also anti-lag on the turbos setting through PFC will QUICKen up your turbos but you better have money to buy another set if you run it for awhile, if you turbos are like 10,000miles or over, don't do it. Fresh turbos should be practiced with anti-lag. image....racing team changes there turbo like every round or every other....which means it get pretty crazy.
-joe
09-17-03, 08:01 PM
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The pfc will stick lock the turbo system in secondary mode once you switch over until the rpms fall to 3000, even though the foward switchover point is 4080rpms. Therefore if you punch it, let off and fall below 4080 but above 3k you're going to have a lot of lag. Apparently, you can adjust this with the datalogit. I'm going to play around with mine this weekend.
If you have an aftermarket IC you might consider removing the airbox and putting K&N filters on the turbo inlets. I did this out of necessity because my greddy FMIC was taking up the space that the airbox used to occupy. After replacing the box and upgrading the IC boost response increased significantly. The greddy FMIC is supposed to have more pressure drop than the stock IC so I attribute the increase in response to the removal of the airbox rather than the IC.
If you have an aftermarket IC you might consider removing the airbox and putting K&N filters on the turbo inlets. I did this out of necessity because my greddy FMIC was taking up the space that the airbox used to occupy. After replacing the box and upgrading the IC boost response increased significantly. The greddy FMIC is supposed to have more pressure drop than the stock IC so I attribute the increase in response to the removal of the airbox rather than the IC.
09-18-03, 12:25 AM
#7
Hey Spank, it's Jeff H.
Your not ever going to get the low end torque Scotty has, ever... 99 twins will give you a little better response but not Z06 response.
Rynberg, never have autocrossed I'm guessing? See sometimes on a 45 sec run it isn't really worth upsetting the car shifting from 1st to 2nd and back to first again in tight corners, you end up just making due and pulling out of a corner at low rpms. This is really where Z06 kicks the FDs ***. It isn't just the HP, it is the powerband, that motor pulls nicely from the bottom end.
To everyone else, he's got about all the mods you can have and stay in SM2, FMIC, light flywheel, etc, etc, etc...
Your not ever going to get the low end torque Scotty has, ever... 99 twins will give you a little better response but not Z06 response.
Rynberg, never have autocrossed I'm guessing? See sometimes on a 45 sec run it isn't really worth upsetting the car shifting from 1st to 2nd and back to first again in tight corners, you end up just making due and pulling out of a corner at low rpms. This is really where Z06 kicks the FDs ***. It isn't just the HP, it is the powerband, that motor pulls nicely from the bottom end.
To everyone else, he's got about all the mods you can have and stay in SM2, FMIC, light flywheel, etc, etc, etc...
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09-18-03, 08:36 PM
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mythical Unicorn
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Jeff
Originally posted by turbojeff
Hey Spank, it's Jeff H.
Your not ever going to get the low end torque Scotty has, ever... 99 twins will give you a little better response but not Z06 response.
Rynberg, never have autocrossed I'm guessing? See sometimes on a 45 sec run it isn't really worth upsetting the car shifting from 1st to 2nd and back to first again in tight corners, you end up just making due and pulling out of a corner at low rpms. This is really where Z06 kicks the FDs ***. It isn't just the HP, it is the powerband, that motor pulls nicely from the bottom end.
To everyone else, he's got about all the mods you can have and stay in SM2, FMIC, light flywheel, etc, etc, etc...
Hey Spank, it's Jeff H.
Your not ever going to get the low end torque Scotty has, ever... 99 twins will give you a little better response but not Z06 response.
Rynberg, never have autocrossed I'm guessing? See sometimes on a 45 sec run it isn't really worth upsetting the car shifting from 1st to 2nd and back to first again in tight corners, you end up just making due and pulling out of a corner at low rpms. This is really where Z06 kicks the FDs ***. It isn't just the HP, it is the powerband, that motor pulls nicely from the bottom end.
To everyone else, he's got about all the mods you can have and stay in SM2, FMIC, light flywheel, etc, etc, etc...
You know my car and yes I have everything you can have and still be in SM2. However I have heard that we can get boost even faster with some modifications. Also as stated above I have heard about boost with no lag.
You know autocrossing I do not put many miles on the car. If I could have no lag and had to replace the turbos every few thousand miles or so that may be worth it.
What have you heard about the above?
Thanks everybody for your help. As jeff said I have lots of mods. What I am looking for is how to make the response happen faster and harder.
Allan
09-18-03, 09:49 PM
#10
NorCal 7's Co-founder
Did you ever think about upgrading to the BNR Stage 3 turbos and having them left as a sequential setup instead of going parallel? You should be getting boost faster with those and just up your boost to 14-16PSI. That would be a huge power difference and the turbos are still the stock part number so it wouldn't eliminate you from the class if changing to an aftermarket turbo did that. I know it sounds kinda shady, but still an idea and one that would work from what I have seen. Best of luck to you and I hope that helped. Laterz.
Zach
Zach
09-18-03, 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by turbojeff
Rynberg, never have autocrossed I'm guessing? See sometimes on a 45 sec run it isn't really worth upsetting the car shifting from 1st to 2nd and back to first again in tight corners, you end up just making due and pulling out of a corner at low rpms. This is really where Z06 kicks the FDs ***. It isn't just the HP, it is the powerband, that motor pulls nicely from the bottom end.
Rynberg, never have autocrossed I'm guessing? See sometimes on a 45 sec run it isn't really worth upsetting the car shifting from 1st to 2nd and back to first again in tight corners, you end up just making due and pulling out of a corner at low rpms. This is really where Z06 kicks the FDs ***. It isn't just the HP, it is the powerband, that motor pulls nicely from the bottom end.
It was also the first time I had to deal with curves slow enough (and a slippery surface) that a shift down to 1st was pretty much mandatory. My first three auto-x were not tight enough (with a grippier surface too) to REQUIRE a shift to 1st.I completely understand the low-end torque advantage that the V8s have in that circumstance. I'd imagine it's one of the reasons the Z06 is now dominating over the FD in SCCA.
09-19-03, 12:32 AM
#12
Originally posted by Icemastr
Get a 6 speed transmission. Want me to come over to Boise Idaho and beat this Scotty fellow with my Miata?
Get a 6 speed transmission. Want me to come over to Boise Idaho and beat this Scotty fellow with my Miata?
I'd actually be surprised if you didn't end up dead last
.
09-19-03, 09:53 AM
#14
Senior Member
Hmm... About the flywheel.
All the lightened flywheel does is let you accelerate faster. It actually has nothing to do with the turbo system. The downside of the lighten flywheel is that once you let off the gas, it also decelerates quickly too due to the fact that momentum is less on the lightened flywheel then the stock.
I would just get the BNR Stage 3 to do the work.
450+ isn't bad to the wheel.
All the lightened flywheel does is let you accelerate faster. It actually has nothing to do with the turbo system. The downside of the lighten flywheel is that once you let off the gas, it also decelerates quickly too due to the fact that momentum is less on the lightened flywheel then the stock.
I would just get the BNR Stage 3 to do the work.
450+ isn't bad to the wheel.
09-19-03, 01:02 PM
#15
another IMO
the bnr turbos are stupid
If you want 450+ to the wheel get a small single turbo that spools fast (I don't think they can do 450rwhp anyway when pushing them to the max 19psi.)
some are leaking oil, they still retaint the stock manifold and position close to the engine where they provide unnecessary heating, and aren't proven to last yet.
However if you need to pass a certain inspection for track use it's probably the best choice unless the newer style turbos with more hp are reliable at high psi.
the bnr turbos are stupid
If you want 450+ to the wheel get a small single turbo that spools fast (I don't think they can do 450rwhp anyway when pushing them to the max 19psi.)
some are leaking oil, they still retaint the stock manifold and position close to the engine where they provide unnecessary heating, and aren't proven to last yet.
However if you need to pass a certain inspection for track use it's probably the best choice unless the newer style turbos with more hp are reliable at high psi.
09-19-03, 01:15 PM
#16
development
another IMO
Snook, he wants to stay SM2, don't think he can go single???
Maybe try a combo of things, port match exhaust manifold, ball and spring boost controller, , and the BNR's. But like stated before I don't think any rotary will have 400ft-lbs at 1800rpms.
Snook, he wants to stay SM2, don't think he can go single???
Maybe try a combo of things, port match exhaust manifold, ball and spring boost controller, , and the BNR's. But like stated before I don't think any rotary will have 400ft-lbs at 1800rpms.
09-20-03, 09:12 PM
#18
mythical Unicorn
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BNR Turbos
Originally posted by BoostedRex
Did you ever think about upgrading to the BNR Stage 3 turbos and having them left as a sequential setup instead of going parallel? You should be getting boost faster with those and just up your boost to 14-16PSI. That would be a huge power difference and the turbos are still the stock part number so it wouldn't eliminate you from the class if changing to an aftermarket turbo did that. I know it sounds kinda shady, but still an idea and one that would work from what I have seen. Best of luck to you and I hope that helped. Laterz.
Zach
Did you ever think about upgrading to the BNR Stage 3 turbos and having them left as a sequential setup instead of going parallel? You should be getting boost faster with those and just up your boost to 14-16PSI. That would be a huge power difference and the turbos are still the stock part number so it wouldn't eliminate you from the class if changing to an aftermarket turbo did that. I know it sounds kinda shady, but still an idea and one that would work from what I have seen. Best of luck to you and I hope that helped. Laterz.
Zach
Do you know anyone with first hand experience with the BNR or Garett?
Allan
09-20-03, 09:24 PM
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mythical Unicorn
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Secondary Mode
Originally posted by CCarlisi
The pfc will stick lock the turbo system in secondary mode once you switch over until the rpms fall to 3000, even though the foward switchover point is 4080rpms. Therefore if you punch it, let off and fall below 4080 but above 3k you're going to have a lot of lag. Apparently, you can adjust this with the datalogit. I'm going to play around with mine this weekend.
If you have an aftermarket IC you might consider removing the airbox and putting K&N filters on the turbo inlets. I did this out of necessity because my greddy FMIC was taking up the space that the airbox used to occupy. After replacing the box and upgrading the IC boost response increased significantly. The greddy FMIC is supposed to have more pressure drop than the stock IC so I attribute the increase in response to the removal of the airbox rather than the IC.
The pfc will stick lock the turbo system in secondary mode once you switch over until the rpms fall to 3000, even though the foward switchover point is 4080rpms. Therefore if you punch it, let off and fall below 4080 but above 3k you're going to have a lot of lag. Apparently, you can adjust this with the datalogit. I'm going to play around with mine this weekend.
If you have an aftermarket IC you might consider removing the airbox and putting K&N filters on the turbo inlets. I did this out of necessity because my greddy FMIC was taking up the space that the airbox used to occupy. After replacing the box and upgrading the IC boost response increased significantly. The greddy FMIC is supposed to have more pressure drop than the stock IC so I attribute the increase in response to the removal of the airbox rather than the IC.
Thanks
Allan
09-20-03, 09:30 PM
#20
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Secondary Mode
Originally posted by CCarlisi
The pfc will stick lock the turbo system in secondary mode once you switch over until the rpms fall to 3000, even though the foward switchover point is 4080rpms. Therefore if you punch it, let off and fall below 4080 but above 3k you're going to have a lot of lag. Apparently, you can adjust this with the datalogit. I'm going to play around with mine this weekend.
If you have an aftermarket IC you might consider removing the airbox and putting K&N filters on the turbo inlets. I did this out of necessity because my greddy FMIC was taking up the space that the airbox used to occupy. After replacing the box and upgrading the IC boost response increased significantly. The greddy FMIC is supposed to have more pressure drop than the stock IC so I attribute the increase in response to the removal of the airbox rather than the IC.
The pfc will stick lock the turbo system in secondary mode once you switch over until the rpms fall to 3000, even though the foward switchover point is 4080rpms. Therefore if you punch it, let off and fall below 4080 but above 3k you're going to have a lot of lag. Apparently, you can adjust this with the datalogit. I'm going to play around with mine this weekend.
If you have an aftermarket IC you might consider removing the airbox and putting K&N filters on the turbo inlets. I did this out of necessity because my greddy FMIC was taking up the space that the airbox used to occupy. After replacing the box and upgrading the IC boost response increased significantly. The greddy FMIC is supposed to have more pressure drop than the stock IC so I attribute the increase in response to the removal of the airbox rather than the IC.
Thanks
Allan
09-20-03, 09:56 PM
#21
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You havent seen my Miata, it doesn't need to be trailered in, but I run 93 and 15psi for small local events/practice and 116 and 20psi for major race events, using a HKS GT 28/35 with a Tec III ecu, bored to 2.0L and ported cylinder heads with an 3rd gen transmission and rear end. Adjustable coil overs with 750 front and 350 rear spring rate. It has a trailer hitch so I can bring my set of racing slicks too. I think I might do a bit better than last place, but this Scotty guy sounds pretty serious and it sounds doubtful my little Miata would beat him, how much does his car weigh? Mine is 2090 /w driver. It makes great torque on the low end, and about 400HP is the max I can push on race gas.
09-22-03, 12:51 PM
#23
Originally posted by Icemastr
You havent seen my Miata, it doesn't need to be trailered in, but I run 93 and 15psi for small local events/practice and 116 and 20psi for major race events, using a HKS GT 28/35 with a Tec III ecu, bored to 2.0L and ported cylinder heads with an 3rd gen transmission and rear end. Adjustable coil overs with 750 front and 350 rear spring rate. It has a trailer hitch so I can bring my set of racing slicks too. I think I might do a bit better than last place, but this Scotty guy sounds pretty serious and it sounds doubtful my little Miata would beat him, how much does his car weigh? Mine is 2090 /w driver. It makes great torque on the low end, and about 400HP is the max I can push on race gas.
You havent seen my Miata, it doesn't need to be trailered in, but I run 93 and 15psi for small local events/practice and 116 and 20psi for major race events, using a HKS GT 28/35 with a Tec III ecu, bored to 2.0L and ported cylinder heads with an 3rd gen transmission and rear end. Adjustable coil overs with 750 front and 350 rear spring rate. It has a trailer hitch so I can bring my set of racing slicks too. I think I might do a bit better than last place, but this Scotty guy sounds pretty serious and it sounds doubtful my little Miata would beat him, how much does his car weigh? Mine is 2090 /w driver. It makes great torque on the low end, and about 400HP is the max I can push on race gas.
