RA Classic vs Goopy Apex Seals **2017**
06-20-17, 07:56 PM
#26
I brought up the mounts as an example to further clarify my point. With so much experience building motors, you should know very well that things change, products improve, products degrade, companies go out of business, ect. I'm willing to bet "decades ago" you weren't using all the same parts you're using now. In another year or two you could very well be using another type of seal and saying the rxparts seals were good but (insert brand) are better. What did it take for you to switch from what you were using and recommending to backing the rxparts seals? I would imagine not so long ago you had a favorite seal that was your go to.
I started the thread for recommendations yes, but by making the statements you made you brought the thread somewhere it shouldn't have gone. Intentional or not, your statement made the implication that any other option outside of what you use is inferior. If you wanted to remain professional as you put it, there was a million other ways you could have made your recommendation.
My beef is the roundabout way you tried to talk down on other products because they weren't the ones you use and trying to hint at me being cheap for using something not as expensive. There will always be a more expensive version of something, it doesn't necessarily mean that the item of lesser cost is inferior. It just means it costs less. Just the same as you endorse the rxparts seals there are people that will endorse the goopy seals but they don't need to talk down about other products to do so. They only need to state facts show evidence.
I started the thread for recommendations yes, but by making the statements you made you brought the thread somewhere it shouldn't have gone. Intentional or not, your statement made the implication that any other option outside of what you use is inferior. If you wanted to remain professional as you put it, there was a million other ways you could have made your recommendation.
My beef is the roundabout way you tried to talk down on other products because they weren't the ones you use and trying to hint at me being cheap for using something not as expensive. There will always be a more expensive version of something, it doesn't necessarily mean that the item of lesser cost is inferior. It just means it costs less. Just the same as you endorse the rxparts seals there are people that will endorse the goopy seals but they don't need to talk down about other products to do so. They only need to state facts show evidence.
I also believe stock seals were recommended based on your setup and objectives. That seems to be a good low cost alternative that seems to be overlooked with the assumption that aftermarket is superior.
And if were me (based on your setup), I would worry more about wear than catastrophic failure. You can take steps to lessen a potential failure, but wear is a constant thing.
06-21-17, 02:51 AM
#28
it seems as though there has been a break in communication on my part... one last explanation....
i appreciate the suggestions and recommendations made. my issue arose when the point used to defend the recommendation was imo ill mannered. im all for a discussion with a disagreement. i enjoy it. some of the best information comes from the point/counter point type situations. what i dont like is when someone says things like "this thing is messed up and i wont say what caused it but it definitely wasnt X" or "you dont use what i use so youre not using something good". neither of which is any kind of beneficial to the discussion. i also dont appreciate being indirectly called cheap because my product choice isnt as expensive as the recommendation being made.
and to comment on what silentblu said, ive been in this situation before where someone with more experience says something and i question it instead of just saying ok. advice is only as good as the credibility of the person giving it. not saying that irp isnt credible but just saying ok and taking the word as law is kind of sheepish. seeking a detailed explanation as to why that suggestion is made is very important. it adds to the knowledge of the person asking and quantifies the information being shared. its better to know why than it is to know of.
like i said, my beef was with the comments made in reference to the suggestion and my response. i said the seals exceeded what i was willing to spend and then a "you get what you pay for" type response arose followed by a picture with no information other than "what i use doesnt cause this" explanation. that was all....
anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy i already placed my order for the goopy seals. after some X thousands of miles, i will stick the borescope in there and get a look at the housings. i will of course take pictures of them now before reassembly.
i appreciate the suggestions and recommendations made. my issue arose when the point used to defend the recommendation was imo ill mannered. im all for a discussion with a disagreement. i enjoy it. some of the best information comes from the point/counter point type situations. what i dont like is when someone says things like "this thing is messed up and i wont say what caused it but it definitely wasnt X" or "you dont use what i use so youre not using something good". neither of which is any kind of beneficial to the discussion. i also dont appreciate being indirectly called cheap because my product choice isnt as expensive as the recommendation being made.
and to comment on what silentblu said, ive been in this situation before where someone with more experience says something and i question it instead of just saying ok. advice is only as good as the credibility of the person giving it. not saying that irp isnt credible but just saying ok and taking the word as law is kind of sheepish. seeking a detailed explanation as to why that suggestion is made is very important. it adds to the knowledge of the person asking and quantifies the information being shared. its better to know why than it is to know of.
like i said, my beef was with the comments made in reference to the suggestion and my response. i said the seals exceeded what i was willing to spend and then a "you get what you pay for" type response arose followed by a picture with no information other than "what i use doesnt cause this" explanation. that was all....
anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy i already placed my order for the goopy seals. after some X thousands of miles, i will stick the borescope in there and get a look at the housings. i will of course take pictures of them now before reassembly.
06-21-17, 02:49 PM
#29
Not that Ihor is at fault, and his input is GREATLY appreciated, but it doesn't really answer OP's primary question; specially when he has evidence bur wont divulge the brand.
Me personally, I was a victim of RA classics; when my engine builder/tuner installed RA super seals on the rebuild, I literally FREAKED out. Five years later, and the engine has the same compression as day one, go figure.
06-21-17, 09:58 PM
#31
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
For what is going to be roughly a 400-450 hp build I would use stock apex seals, certainly wouldn't consider RA with their reputation of eating housings. Are you wanting something "better" than stock because you plan to get pre-ignition or don't trust your tuner?
Not familiar enough with the Goopy to comment on theirs.
Not familiar enough with the Goopy to comment on theirs.
Then again, there are outliers--- My brother Ryan's SSM FD that set the BNR power level record has an engine that I street ported and built, and after discussing the matter with him we (he) chose to go with OEM stock two piece 2mm apex seals. Back then it was either RA black or stock.
His setup has been making 400+ for something like 7 years now, and he's been running around at 19 psi/450+ rwhp for quite some time on the street. Street use as well as road course at the 400ish level. I'm not tracking his mileage and I can ask him, but I'd wager ~35k miles or so. Zero issues, car is a beast and runs very strong, never misses a beat.
I built many many engines with RA Super (black) seals back in the day (pre RX-Parts) and I'll say this--- their machining process was always spot on and every single seal was identical. Very good quality control. They're certainly tough on the rotor housings even with liberal premix and OMP. Really comes down to longevity and how many miles are planned for the setup. They stand up damn well to detonation.
I have limited experience with ALS seals, and will never use them again (if they're even still around). I had a few sets that seemed 'ok' and suddenly started having issues clearancing them. Come to find out, multiple seals in each set were warped...... new, delivered to me the engine builder---warped. Banana'd before the detonation. Pretty easy decision to move far away from those. They have/had their fans, but I can only speak to my firsthand experience.
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KNONFS (06-22-17)
06-22-17, 01:58 PM
#32
They RAPED both rotor housings, now in full disclosure, the engine ran on an untuned ECU for quite some time (couple of months), and when the car was dynoed, it was discovered that the ECU (haltech e6k) had some sort of issue with the ignition. The ignition issue was resolved, engine rebuild with black seals, and to this day (that was roughly 6 years ago) still showing the same vac at idle as it did the first day. My FC is my DD when not on the motorycle, or hauling the kids around, no OMP, premix 1oz per 1 gal.