So this summer, I'm looking for a fuel upgrade, and a radiator. I'm going to be running an Adaptronic PnP ECU, with a full dyno and tune.

Currently have, HKS downpipe, Megan racing midpipe, Blitz catback, and a Greddy SMIC. Also have an intake I haven't put on yet.

Goals are about 350-380ish WHP.

My question is, what injectors do you guys suggest. I was hoping to go 850cc all around. If I need to get a fuel rail I'll totally do it. No problem. Just not sure how and what to look for.


And radiator, what do you suggest, I'm torn between a Mishimoto and a Koyorad.



Thanks ahead of time!!

 

To run 850 all around, I think you have to modify your primary fuel rail and there may be some aftermarket rails to support it(RHDJapan : Border Fuel Delivery Pipe FD3S). People bore out the stock 550's to 720cc or so. They also bore out the 850's to 1300cc. Lots of people report trouble tuning the 850's for solid idle and low speed. You'll also do well to upgrade the pump/wiring/bulkhead to hold steady pressure with more fuel flowing.

The "best" option would be to upgrade your rails to support newer top feed injectors with new lines, regulator, pump, etc. It gets expensive quick, and the further you go away from stock, the more stock stuff has to go. But, that's all fine and well if you end up going single turbo. Your planned ecu will support any of those options well enough.

 

Not a tuner, but the things I see....

*If you keep the stock twins, port the waste-gate or replace the midpipe with some backpressure to avoid creep.
*You need a larger SMIC with the boost you'll have to run. May have to relocate the battery.
*Consider AI
*You'll need a boost controller as you open up the intake side.
*Need ignition amplification and colder plugs than stock.
*Koyo

 

I'm totally fine with going away from stock. So you would say go away from 850 all around?

 

^850cc all around is going to be pushing it... If I remember correctly it's doable (I ran 4x 850cc injectors with an increased fuel pressure so they'd flow approx same as 1000cc, I think I was still in the OPs intended power range..) but I wouldn't recommend it When it comes to fuel I (personally) think it's much better/safer to overbuild than it is to push the limits of your system.

The factory primary rail accepts side feed injectors iirc, so you'll be wanting to replace that unless you plan on keeping the stock ones.

I would honestly try to avoid "bored out" injectors.. SUPER low tech "solution" when there is an abundance of EV14 injectors in the correct size.

Big question here... What is your budget for addressing your fuel needs? (It's very easy to drop close to a grand on fueling without even hitting the entire system!!)

 

I have about 2000-2500 USD for mods for this summer. And I'm trying to over build and then run it on the low side. So a grand for fueling isn't that big of a deal.

 

You can keep the stock primary and just upgrade the secondary rail with bigger EV14 injectors, then of course you'll have to upgrade/rewire your pump.

 

keep stock primary injectors. I mean the Adaptronic isn't as difficult to tune as a PFC with big primaries, but why make it difficult.

 

When i rebuilt my engine and ran the 99 twins i was pushing 13psi 305hp @ the wheels (mustang Dyno) I upgraded to ID 850 pri and ID2k sec and the supraTT fuel pump. More than enough fuel. If your running the stock twins you don't need that much fuel but it's a good safety margin. I was worried about fuel usage on the highway at first. But cruising at 75mph i was getting 25 mpg. City driving sucks compared to stock. Make sure your logging fuel press into the adaptronic so you can see if there are and issues also. Are you getting the new adaptronic? If so there is a simple way to get fuel pressure logged now. turblown has post a few times about it.

I ended going single and have a efr 8374 now. Glad I over built the fuel system. All i need to do is wire in my new fuel walbro 455 pump now.

 

I would recommend the FFE "step up" kit:
FD Fuel Step Up Kit | Full Function Engineering

I would also get rid of the fuel pulsation dampener.

You can get whatever 1300+ top feed injectors to go in the rail and be good to go.

 

Aren't 850 primaries more pain than they are worth in terms of driveability on a car that isn't making crazy horsepower? Idle, cruise, and normal driving is affected by primary injectors that are too large.

550cc stock primaries and 1650cc secondaries is the best setup until like 550-600whp. You can run high 9's in the 1/4 on 550/1650 setup.

Don't know why you would bother with 850 primaries.

 

So from what I've read so far, I'll probably stay stock injectors with 1300cc secondaries. Thanks for all the help guys. Just learning about this stuff really makes my day. I'm a first year apprentice mechanic right now. Learning as much as I can. They don't teach you much about this in school quite yet lol

 

I've had both great driveability, and terrible driveability with 850cc primaries (all on a PFC). I think it boils down to how skilled the tuner is.

 

Here's my advice: Stick with a Power FC. Its proven and has no bugs, and although old it is still the best option for a mildly modified street car. We've made 600hp on them. If you want something better then Haltech or AEM.

Stock 850s in the primary location cause an overly rich idle and less than ideal transition. The injectors are just too dated and the spray pattern is not good enough. For simplicity keep the stock 550s and add the FFE stepup kit with your choice of secondary injectors.

The stock twins will not reliably make 380whp. A more realistic goal would be 320-330 on pump gas. This will take 12-14lbs of boost depending on setup and tune. The twins will not last long at higher boost than this. As you approach and exceed 15lbs you will need a 3 bar map sensor as the stock 2 bar will max out. If you really want this reliable power on twins go with BNRs.

The Mishimoto radiator is hardly larger than stock. It does have the benefit of being all aluminum. We used it in stock cars only because the larger Koyo makes it difficult to get the stock intercooler and ducting to fit. The koyo is a better radiator though. I know Peter Hahn has a used Fluidyne that also fits well.

You will need a better intercooler.

An ignition upgrade is also a good idea.

I can get you whatever you need.

 

So I'll probably do the FFE stepup kit, I'll contact you about it. I'm 100% getting the adaptronic already, due to a certain person doing the tuning for me. I'll check out the Koyo or the Fluidyne, I do want something that drops right in.

I was looking, the 1000cc vs the 1300cc is a huge price difference. If my goals are only 350ish or so, do I need the whole 1300cc?

Realistically that 350 number is just a rough estimate, I'm hoping to run a fairly conservative tune. 12 PSI tops on the turbos til I upgrade through BNR or something.

And ignition, how urgent do you think that is? I'll have to do some research about that because I don't understand how that works quite yet :/


Thanks so much for the help guys.

 

If you have plan to upgrade to BNR or even single then I would get the 2000, so you don't have to touch the fuel system again when you want more power.