burnoutking999

I have a 94 r2 and i am getting together a extensive/expensive list for the overall plan for my car. My goal is 350-400 rwhp RELIABLY so I am doing this very planned and carefully. I know enought to get the parts together and do the work for pretty much everything BUT the fuel system.

I havent done a lot of that in the past and what fuel system stuff ive done was carb'ed so different world. Below is my planned list of parts and please take a look and see if ive forgotten anything and what fuel system i need. I know I'll need a pump and injectors but im not sure what specific values and part I'd need...

In addition, I am doing this in two stages so I need to know WHEN to do the upgrade also...

phase one:
greddy intakes
stock twins(ported wastegate, non-seq)
enfini y pipe
vmount rad/int w/ mini or relocated batt
greddy elbow
stock ports
downpipe
resonated midpipe
greddy sp cat back
power FC and commander
re-amamiya boost gauge
b&m short throw
Fuel pump??(what kind would be best)

phase 2
BNR stage 3 twins
streetported engine(what apex, 2...3mm? why?)
exedy clutch and lightened flywheel
injectors/rails(what specification and is there a kit for the whole deal)

Anyways, I am looking to get the bolded things nailed down and then start the process next month. By the end of the year it will be done I'm hoping. I want a well done car and i like to reasearch... I've looked around and searched the forum etc. I was just wondering what you guys thought about it and if I could get some real world/practical experience and advice it would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance,

josh.

Farhan

I would suggest going with the RX7store.net's extreme fuel system. It's a full kit and should cover all the fuel mods you will need to do. Actually, you probably will still need to get a larger fuel pump. A Supra TT fuel pump is always a good choice, also tends to be in the F/S section quite often so you're in luck.

burnoutking999

one other thing... if i go ahead and do the injectors and everything early then will it be bad/too much gas or is it the CAPABILITY to run more gas and they'll just run at a low duty cycle? for instance if the stockers are ???cc and the others higher... then the stock are running 75% duty and i increase the injectors it just lowers it to 60% etc?

sorry, im just not that familiar with these issues...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

If you increase the injectors without tuning, then yes it can be bad (as you'll be dumping in a LOT more fuel than you need). As long as you have some tuning, it would be just fine.

burnoutking999

so if i change the injectors(extreme kit) to the phase one order and get it from rx7store they will be able to tune for that and then just retune for the BNRs and the street port later?

i also noticed that the extremem kit uses only two 1600cc injectors... you dont need four/the secodaries with that kit and when its accounted for with the tuning/PFC?

Farhan

Are you buying your Power FC from RX-7Store as well? If so, then they should have no problems with them tuning for larger injectors and whatever other mods you have. Keep in mind though, that the tune they will do will not at all be specific to your car and will probably end up being a very conservative tune (read: you'll be running very rich). I would suggest go ahead and go this route and once you get your new turbos then go and have a proper dyno tuning performed.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

This first step is a doozie.

Gotta have the boost gauge first. Then add a boost controller. Then do the rest, IMHO.

If you will be paying a shop to do all this at once, make sure of course it's tuned also and done by a competent shop.

If you're doing it yourself or one-by-one, then you should have the boost gauge and controller first, then add the flow mods (intake, intercooler, y-pipe, midpipe, catback, downpipe), in stages and re-tune the boost each time. Obviously you'll be porting the wastegate too before running the midpipe. Then when you get everything running at 10psi, you can install the fuel upgrades, turn up the boost, and get re-tuned.

Sorry I can't recommend fuel components, but that first phase got my attention.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Fuel Injection isn't terribly complicated.

Injectors are rated in terms of the maximum flow they can output. This output is controlled by duty cycling, which is basically a rapid open/closed valve. The more time the injector valve spends open, the more fuel you get. (Stock primaries and secondaries max out at 550cc/min and 850cc/min). The ECU is tuned in terms of duty cycles, which is basically a percentage. (85% duty cycle -> .85*550cc/min = 468 for primaries) Anytime you need more fuel, or change one of these components, the ECU needs to be reprogrammed accordingly. It's of course safe to make a small change and not retune if the change adds the amount of fuel going to the engine, but then you're running richer than you need to and not making full power. There is a fuel injector size vs. horsepower tool on Max Cooper's website that helps quite a bit.

All the while, the fuel pump needs to maintain a certain pressure on the injector to properly feed them. If you increase the injector size, the fuel pump needs to be able to feed at the higher rate without losing pressure. An undersized fuel pump will cause lower line pressure when the injectors reach peak usage, resulting in the injectors not flowing what they should. If you increase the boost, you will need to re-tune your fuel flow to keep the AFRs in check, and increase the fuel line pressure to cancel out the extra pressure in the engine. You'll want to find out at what level of boost the stock fuel pressure becomes insufficient, and that you'll need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

Hopefully I explained that all correctly and didn't bastardize it; I'm sure some veterans will correct me.

Dave

matty

if u plan on staying near those power levels then get a supra fuel pump and 1300cc injectors. Spend the money on a good tune. also, remember to take the car for a ride once your dyno tuning is complete. just cause u make power doesnt mean the drivability is good. make sure u check on/off throttle for jerkiness. thast annoying stuff for around town

rynberg

IMO, it would be really dumb to pull your existing turbos to port the wastegate and then replace them as the next phase.

Drop porting the wastegate and the midpipe from Phase 1 to Phase 2. If you are planning to rebuild the engine, I would wait until then to do the fuel system.

Truth be told, if you are planning to rebuild the engine pretty soon, I would do it now and just combine Phases 1 and 2.

burnoutking999

that was the plan and then to have steve kan or someone tune it... i am about reliability as much as possible so conservative is ok at first.

burnoutking999

i bought the car with a downpipe and greddy sp cat back... the only mods. i know have a b&m shifter and the gauge is on the way. everything else in stage one is going to be ordered and installed at once when i get the non sequential mod and wastegate ported next month. i will be doing the bolt on stuff mysefl and having speed fab do the nonseguential and WG porting. then in a week or two depending on time i will get the parts in a get a weekend to bust it out.

i plan on giving a list to the rx7store to get a good base map but how much should i trust that?

burnoutking999

the problem is i have 3000 miles on the engine... 3k thats right. it was 500miles when igot it 3 weeks ago. so a new engine will be later and thats the reason for two phases. i plan on going non sequential the right way so i have to take them off already. thats the first step. then the rest of the parts or on in one weekend. hopefully i will not have any issues and get it together right the first time and thats the reason ive been so **** about it. i have been planning this for some time and now i have the funds so away we go.

rynberg

If you are going with the BNRs, I would just wait on doing work to your turbos. BNR can ship the turbos non-seq and ported already, so why do all that work for nothing?

I don't understand why you have a rebuild in Phase 2 if it's a fresh motor. In any case, I would do the BNRs, midpipe, and fuel system at the same time.

burnoutking999

i was thinking that the wastegate was my starting point to eliminate boost creep and while i was doing that then go non sequential.

i was going to put phase 2 off until the motor gave in later and drive on everything else till then.

so basically i should...

do phase1 minus the resonated midpipe and fuel kit and add a boost controller? and put a supra pump in? then later when my engine needs building do the streetport/BNRs and the fuel?

i know what i want to do but all of the info out there is confusing me in what is the SAFEST way to get it done and in what order!

burnoutking999

so if im going for 400ish rwhp on the mods listed and the extreme fuel kit w/ a larger capacity pump and higher presure ill be fine on that level and not over kill with 1600cc injectors? plus no one answered the question on that kit what happens to the secondaries and the holes they fill? im not seeing how that works out in the descriptions and pics.

burnoutking999

ok i just re-read about the PFC... is it true there is no need for an addtional boost controller when you have that because it controls it? i am sure i will need to control the boost ewspecially if i dont port the wastegate. as i said before im taking alot on at once and if you experienced guys could point me in the right direction id appreciate it!!

ive been reading too much today i think but ill be on tomorrow with a fresh start. i just want to get a plan together and everything before i start ordering things. especially the boost control issues and what fuel system i need to manage the fuel need of the mods i am doing at the first stage without limiting myself when stage two come into effect.

Jason

iTrader: (5)

If your going for 400+ then go with the extreme system and supra pump. The map I would provide is good to get you going until you get on a dyno.

burnoutking999

that would be great and im almost ready to place the order here in a few days after i get a few questions answered and set up the last few details and which order i am going in. hopefully chuck will still be able to ship my kit next week(v mount).

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Take your time; it takes some reading/learing/experiencing for this kind of knowledge to sink in.

Boost control with a PFC uses the stock boost control system of pills and duty-cycling solenoids. Although it's adjustable, it has the same problem as stock boost control - responsiveness. Heavy mods like you're describing will easily go beyond what a stock boost control system can stay ahead of. Maybe not a problem with the first few mods, but definitely in your stage 2.

Porting the wastegate is really only to cope with a midpipe. It's generally unnecessary with a catted exhaust. Although it's a boost control problem, it's not anything the boost controller can do anything about. It's analogous to a wide-open fuel injector - in a very high flowing exhaust system, the stock wastegate sometimes can't dump enough exhaust even when the boost controller tells it to open 100%. The result of not dumping enough exhaust is increasing boost, called boost creep. The more the wastegate is overwhelmed, the quicker the boost creeps. The solution is to enlarge the hole, effectively making it into a higher flowing wastegate (kinda like boring out an 850cc injector 1000cc). If you decide to put off the mods required to run higher boost, I suggest you put off the midpipe too so that boost creep won't happen.

David

burnoutking999

^ thanks for the clear description! yeah, i think ill just port the wastegate/ go nonsequential, boost controller, v-mount setup, intakes, enfini, greddy elbow, pfc/tune for now and then when i need to rebuild the engine do all the rest and retune then.

a couple other things though...

1) people up boost and tune for it and dont have the creep issue ive heard. why is this?

2)i have been around supercharged applications and have heard of "blowing out spark" and seen it happen before. do rotaries deal with this issue and if so at 17+lbs or has it been seen lower? im trying to decide if and when to plan on incorporating an ignition amplifier into the equation.

well, my first step is almost done... i installed the b&m sfhifter last night and it was a 30 min(including test drive) job and totally changed the shifter feel! i have crisp firm shifts and a LOT less slop. the boost gauge should be on the way and i hope to have it in this weekend... im hoping it will be waiting on me to get home today. then ill see what my car does. thanks agian for all the help and ill be around. its great to have such an awesome car and then its ten times better to know i have veterans that dont mind explaining/ sharing knowledge in such a way. later,

josh.