Elegant Black Monster

But the "unbreakable" ones? I think not. From the gyst of this thread I believe the only unbreakable ones are the apex seals. All good but I believe the water jacket seals are the ones that usually break.

jspecracer7

WHAT IN THE HELL??? You have GOT to be kidding! Your not going to break a water jacket seal by poor tuning, running poor gas, or running too much boost.

I doubt you've even TOUCHED a water jacket seal

93tourtom

If anybody has one of these seals and wants to know what it is I can figure it out. The only problem is the testing would be destructive. I read that somebody cracked one in their engine. I am a materials engineer and I have access to the equipment to figure this out.

jspecracer7

PM scathcart. He's the one that cracked one.

$150FC

Hm.

Some new movers'n'shakers in the rotary world. First anti-det, and now this?

Maybe my next engine will use these seals.

BTW, they are sold under Rotary Aviation and Real World Solutions brandnames.

rzograbian

if you could send me those atkins seals, that would be great. i would find a material engineer or send them all to 93tourtom.

BATMAN

Isn't there a teflon water seal out there?

paw140

Strength is not a measure of area under the stress/strain curve. Strength is the amount of force (or stress) it takes to break a material. Area under the curve is measure of *toughness*. The brittleness of glass has nothing to do with the 'quickness' of its yield point, as it probably never even reaches its yield point before it breaks.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

hehehehe

prolly should have refreshed up on that before i posted but i though i remembered right.

that's why i'm not a mat E

saxyman990

Yes, RA uses Teflon encapsulated inner water-jacket O-rings. Their rotor oil seal rings are made of Viton.

Rob

Elegant Black Monster

Hey hey hey! Watch the hostility. What I mean is if they sold something like the "unbreakable" apex seals to help lessen the probability of blowing that particular seal which is also most common in breaking.

jspecracer7

Your not making ANY sense.

Water seals don't blow because of bad tuning. They go out when an engine has been overheated. My N/A FC has over 250,000 miles on her. Never overheated. Still going strong. FD's are turbo charged and normally only last around 70,000 miles because of the apex seals getting brittle and cracking/breaking due to higher EGT's. So RA created an upgraded apex seal that last much longer.The RA apex seals are a metal seal. The water jacket seals are teflon/rubber/plastic/whatever... I don't understand HOW you can compare the two. There's NO WAY that a water jacket seal can be as strong as a METAL seal. So quit comparing.

Elegant Black Monster

I'm not comparing. I'm merely wondering if one can be made for overheating (a common problem where I live), and sell it in a rebuild kit with the "unbreakable" ones.

So yeah great, main death of the rotary engine is blowing an apex seal. the other main cancer is the o-ring (water jacket seal) going due to overheating or getting close to overheating which lessens it's life dramatically. Both reuire a rebuild. So what I am asking if there is a stronger (something similair to the "unbreakable") o-ring.

jspecracer7

The stock water jacket has been proven to hold up past 250,000 miles!!! How much more performance do you need?

and on that note....

Let's quit talking about stock bullshit, and get back to blowing **** up.

MillSpeed

iTrader: (1)

I understand what you're getting at. Rotary Aviation supply uprated teflon internal O-rings in their "master" re-build kit, along with the "unbreakable" apex seals (I think, need to check the website again).

felix_is_alive

hahahah hahahah ,....seriously is this all true ,an apex seal thats really unbreakable ????
does anyone know how much they where gonna raise the price???

felix_is_alive

hahahah hahahah ,....seriously is this all true ,an apex seal thats really unbreakable ????
does anyone know how much they where gonna raise the price???

1FooknTiteFD

What's wrong with the stock 2mm apex seals? If a car with them is properly tuned what difference will it make on the longivity of the engine? Is there evidence that aftermarket apex seals make the engine last longer and reduce wear on other engine components over stock? Improper a/f mixture and bad tuning blows engines not stock seals

paw140

You're missing the entire point. If the seals are more robust and less likely to break, then they will be able to better withstand poor tuning or the occasional ping.

paw140

I just read the website. I'm a little suspicious. The fact that they have 700% better bending strength doesn't mean a whole lot. As a matter of fact, I don't really know what they mean by 'bending strength'. Maybe they are talking about bending *modulus*? Bending strength would imply the amount of force it takes to break the seal in a bending situation, but it doesn't say anything about the toughness of the material. 80% harder? Who cares... so they will wear a little less but take out the housings faster.

Also, material science is not something that one can just jump into and come up with a revolutionary new material. I just find it hard to believe that the couple running Rotary Aviation came up with this new apex seal material that is better than Mazda and Hurley, who have actual engineers and material scientists at their disposal.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

I guess no one is worried about the rotor housings. I brought that up (said side housings by mistake and got a nice little retort for it). I made that assertion due to the harder seals btw.

housings>seals in my book.

a relatively mild FD shouldn't have any problem running over 100,000 miles. After that, replace seals and drive for another 50-75.

i'll sit this one out. I want a good seal so i will go 3 peice anyway.

rzograbian

well, im not sure on this but i think mazda upgraded their stock seals to 2 peice.

BATMAN

I just ordered mines......

rzograbian

how many do they have left? i talked to laura and she said that they are raising the price $15. not a dig difference. its still under $200. she didnt tell me but i think that the price will go up a lot later on though

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

what series?

FD's were the first to use 3 piece and that was the big difference between their racing rotaries and mainstream ones.

They went 3 to improve compression. That is what the Rx-7 book said anyway. I was skimming through it about a week ago.

It came with my first rotary