Is PFS still in business? Other shops in the north east?
09-04-13, 10:45 PM
#26
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
That's likely going to depend on who you ask. If you talk to Brian (TitaniumTT) he'll tell you Motec, if you ask Elliot (Turblown) he'll probably recommend an Adaptronic, if you asked C. Ludwig he'd likely recommend a Haltech. I'd say that just broaching the subject with Dave is going to be your best bet. Discuss it with him to see what he recommends and is most comfortable with.
At the end of the day it matters less how capable your ECU is, and more how capable your tuner is in mapping that particular brand. You could install a top of the line ECU, like Pectel, that's gunna run you over $15k out of the box and it won't be worth a damn if the monkey "tuning" it only has experience with the PFS Purple Box and Megasquirts...
Myself, I'll be putting in a Syvecs S8 ECU into my car over the winter, and I'll only allow two people to touch it, neither of them are active on this forum.
At the end of the day it matters less how capable your ECU is, and more how capable your tuner is in mapping that particular brand. You could install a top of the line ECU, like Pectel, that's gunna run you over $15k out of the box and it won't be worth a damn if the monkey "tuning" it only has experience with the PFS Purple Box and Megasquirts...
Myself, I'll be putting in a Syvecs S8 ECU into my car over the winter, and I'll only allow two people to touch it, neither of them are active on this forum.
I'll do whatever the guy tuning it says will meet my modest needs. I'm just ready to enjoy the car for a while before I tackle the horrid paint it came with.
What's your setup for those numbers at only 11psi? must be a conservative single?
I would love to get mine in the ballpark of 300rwhp but don't want to get into fuel the fuel system. It's only has 46k miles on it but they've been by someone more suited to Toyota ownership obviously..... and by 300 ballpark I mean I'd be more than happy with 280 if it ran perfect and looked mostly factory.
Thanks for all the advice and cheers to back in the old days on here/"TFL"!
09-05-13, 07:45 AM
#27
F'n Newbie...
iTrader: (6)
Engine wise, I picked up the last "new" engine from Malloy and Speed1 street ported it, I got a set of S4 N/A rotors and Chip Ursu (Chips Motorsports) lightened/clearanced the rotors and balanced the rotating assembly. Brian (TitaniumTT) came to mine for a long weekend and we (he) built the motor in my garage. We used stock side/corner seals and rx7specialty (REC) Super Seals, everything was clearanced real tight.
Brian tuned my car on a PFC. We talked about it and agreed that it would be best to keep the power lower until I can upgrade from the PFC. My car was tuned to just the wastegate.
Originally Posted by Alex-7
Thanks for all the advice and cheers to back in the old days on here/"TFL"!
Last edited by fendamonky; 09-05-13 at 07:51 AM.
09-05-13, 08:18 AM
#28
Also try MA Motorsports in Glen Arm, MD.
MA Motorsports
They do all sorts of custom/swap/drift cars. Always a few rotaries in the shop. Wouldnt hurt to give them a call and see what their list is like right now.
Ray (from MA) tuned my last FC and it turned out great.
MA Motorsports
They do all sorts of custom/swap/drift cars. Always a few rotaries in the shop. Wouldnt hurt to give them a call and see what their list is like right now.
Ray (from MA) tuned my last FC and it turned out great.
09-05-13, 08:43 AM
#29
If they get the car to run smooth with the PFC and AC on go for it. I love my Pettit ecu for a stock twin car with a cat still in place only running 12-13lbs. My car doesn't suffer from the 3k hesitation and its great to know my car will idle perfect everyday no matter the engine temp or accessories being on or off. If you are fine with 10lbs or less and can resolve the 3k hesitation nothing compares to the stock or modified stock ecu. However, the PFC is great due to the commander offering 10 gauges in one compact setup.
09-05-13, 07:57 PM
#30
That's likely going to depend on who you ask. If you talk to Brian (TitaniumTT) he'll tell you Motec, if you ask Elliot (Turblown) he'll probably recommend an Adaptronic, if you asked C. Ludwig he'd likely recommend a Haltech. I'd say that just broaching the subject with Dave is going to be your best bet. Discuss it with him to see what he recommends and is most comfortable with.
At the end of the day it matters less how capable your ECU is, and more how capable your tuner is in mapping that particular brand. You could install a top of the line ECU, like Pectel, that's gunna run you over $15k out of the box and it won't be worth a damn if the monkey "tuning" it only has experience with the PFS Purple Box and Megasquirts...
Myself, I'll be putting in a Syvecs S8 ECU into my car over the winter, and I'll only allow two people to touch it, neither of them are active on this forum.
At the end of the day it matters less how capable your ECU is, and more how capable your tuner is in mapping that particular brand. You could install a top of the line ECU, like Pectel, that's gunna run you over $15k out of the box and it won't be worth a damn if the monkey "tuning" it only has experience with the PFS Purple Box and Megasquirts...
Myself, I'll be putting in a Syvecs S8 ECU into my car over the winter, and I'll only allow two people to touch it, neither of them are active on this forum.
You'd might be surprised how much Brian likes his Haltechs.
Seriously, good advise. We should also be doing a Syvecs install this winter. Looks like a certain multi-time national champion, that has been running Haltech, is going to shake things up and try to stay ahead of the game.
09-06-13, 11:44 AM
#31
Shops
When I needed an engine I worked with Cam at Pettit. He has a good engine build reputation, he was close so I used his services. Since I had always run the stock ECU I had the 3K hesitation, stumble. Cam added the Apexi PFC and since then the hesitation has been completely eliminated. So if your tuner understands how to tune these things then I would say this setup would eliminate the 3k issue. I drive my car twice a week to work, I run a set of modified twins with a street ported motor. I have had no issues and have put 10k miles since the work was done. Good luck in your search and I'm sure Dave will point you in the right direction.
09-06-13, 08:43 PM
#33
UPDATE!
The car is still a total disaster and I haven't driven it.
It's currently over at Speed1 awaiting a new motor from Malloy.
The car currently has a fluidyne, metal AST, silicone vacuum hoses and a down pipe. I'm having Speed1 install a high flow cat.
Now I'm in the middle of a PFC debate. I want to run the car at stock boost forever but, I want it very drivable. back when I got the basket case and it was running my mechanic at the Porsche shop that had it at noted the pronounced 3krpm hesitation.
I know this has been beat to death but if any of you feel like giving me any personalized feedback on my setup it would help the decision.
Should I get a PFC while I'm doing all of this? If I did I would likely get a racing beat catback as well.
The car will already be on the dyno for a break in after the new engine is in place.
I just want a smooth running reliable (for an FD) FD and after all is said and done I'm going to have over 30 grand in it no matter what, so I want to make sure that goal is achieved lol.
So, to PFC and exhaust or not to PFC and exhaust?
Feel free to philosophise and think out loud.....
The car is still a total disaster and I haven't driven it.
It's currently over at Speed1 awaiting a new motor from Malloy.
The car currently has a fluidyne, metal AST, silicone vacuum hoses and a down pipe. I'm having Speed1 install a high flow cat.
Now I'm in the middle of a PFC debate. I want to run the car at stock boost forever but, I want it very drivable. back when I got the basket case and it was running my mechanic at the Porsche shop that had it at noted the pronounced 3krpm hesitation.
I know this has been beat to death but if any of you feel like giving me any personalized feedback on my setup it would help the decision.
Should I get a PFC while I'm doing all of this? If I did I would likely get a racing beat catback as well.
The car will already be on the dyno for a break in after the new engine is in place.
I just want a smooth running reliable (for an FD) FD and after all is said and done I'm going to have over 30 grand in it no matter what, so I want to make sure that goal is achieved lol.
So, to PFC and exhaust or not to PFC and exhaust?
Feel free to philosophise and think out loud.....
My AC was working when it was installed but actually quit working this summer. I'm still getting around to diagnosing the root cause but considering the compressor cycles on and off I don't see a reason to think the PFC is related.
David
10-16-13, 04:03 PM
#34
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Update!
Just talked with Speed 1 who just wrapped up tuning the car.
The setup finally turned out to be
Mazda reman
Stock sequential twins
Intake (apexi I think), down pipe, high flow cat and racing beat catback
and we went with a power FC
Dyno'd at 275fwhp @10 psi and 293 @ 12 psi.
IIRC he said RWHP was about 238.
Those numbers sound about right to you guys? I'm personally happy with them.
The fuel system is completely stock, they assure me 12psi is completely safe and it's well tuned. I'm inclined to agree with them but I've previously been under the impression that 12 was a little aggressive without an upgraded pump and injectors??
I'd like to thank you all for your advice on all of this. Hopefully I'll get out to PA within the next few weeks....
Just talked with Speed 1 who just wrapped up tuning the car.
The setup finally turned out to be
Mazda reman
Stock sequential twins
Intake (apexi I think), down pipe, high flow cat and racing beat catback
and we went with a power FC
Dyno'd at 275fwhp @10 psi and 293 @ 12 psi.
IIRC he said RWHP was about 238.
Those numbers sound about right to you guys? I'm personally happy with them.
The fuel system is completely stock, they assure me 12psi is completely safe and it's well tuned. I'm inclined to agree with them but I've previously been under the impression that 12 was a little aggressive without an upgraded pump and injectors??
I'd like to thank you all for your advice on all of this. Hopefully I'll get out to PA within the next few weeks....
10-16-13, 08:19 PM
#35
F'n Newbie...
iTrader: (6)
10-16-13, 09:55 PM
#36
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
I remember running 13psi on a completely stock fuel setup for several months while in England. 13psi was pushing it about as far as I´d feel comfortable going... I only did that because I was waiting on BNR stage 3´s, a new clutch, a Bosch 044, and new injectors anyway. The stock system was fine at 13psi, so I´d be inclined to believe Dave when he says that you´re safe at 12psi
That's what I needed to hear.
Can't wait to drive it.! Hopefully the weather stays decent into late November!
10-17-13, 02:57 PM
#38
^^ Thanks!
I'll speak with Dave once the car is up and running again. They should have the motor at the shop by next week...
Price isn't as big of an issue as getting it driving perfectly. like I said I'm already taking a complete bath on this deal.
Is there a consensus on the best current ECU for a "set it and forget it" type of application?
I'll speak with Dave once the car is up and running again. They should have the motor at the shop by next week...
Price isn't as big of an issue as getting it driving perfectly. like I said I'm already taking a complete bath on this deal.
Is there a consensus on the best current ECU for a "set it and forget it" type of application?
NINJAedit - as usual, I was late to the party lol
Speed1 dynojet numbers matches PFR dynojets numbers, at least on my setup.
10-17-13, 03:17 PM
#39
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
238 rwhp with intake/dp/hfc/cb at 13 psi, or 10 psi?
Sounds low, especially if at 13.
My dad's FD made 290 rwhp at 12 psi with just intake/dp/cb on an IRP Stage 1 ported engine, still passing emissions. Car still had stock main cat and intercooler.
For comparison, stock FDs would dyno around 210-215 rwhp back in the day.
Sounds low, especially if at 13.
My dad's FD made 290 rwhp at 12 psi with just intake/dp/cb on an IRP Stage 1 ported engine, still passing emissions. Car still had stock main cat and intercooler.
For comparison, stock FDs would dyno around 210-215 rwhp back in the day.
Update!
Just talked with Speed 1 who just wrapped up tuning the car.
The setup finally turned out to be
Mazda reman
Stock sequential twins
Intake (apexi I think), down pipe, high flow cat and racing beat catback
and we went with a power FC
Dyno'd at 275fwhp @10 psi and 293 @ 12 psi.
IIRC he said RWHP was about 238.
Those numbers sound about right to you guys? I'm personally happy with them.
The fuel system is completely stock, they assure me 12psi is completely safe and it's well tuned. I'm inclined to agree with them but I've previously been under the impression that 12 was a little aggressive without an upgraded pump and injectors??
I'd like to thank you all for your advice on all of this. Hopefully I'll get out to PA within the next few weeks....
Just talked with Speed 1 who just wrapped up tuning the car.
The setup finally turned out to be
Mazda reman
Stock sequential twins
Intake (apexi I think), down pipe, high flow cat and racing beat catback
and we went with a power FC
Dyno'd at 275fwhp @10 psi and 293 @ 12 psi.
IIRC he said RWHP was about 238.
Those numbers sound about right to you guys? I'm personally happy with them.
The fuel system is completely stock, they assure me 12psi is completely safe and it's well tuned. I'm inclined to agree with them but I've previously been under the impression that 12 was a little aggressive without an upgraded pump and injectors??
I'd like to thank you all for your advice on all of this. Hopefully I'll get out to PA within the next few weeks....
10-17-13, 03:32 PM
#40
a good tuner won't be dissuaded by any particular EMS, unless that EMS happens to be pure garbage.
and 293flywheel horsepower loosely translates to about 255wheel horsepower. which isn't bad but it is on the low side at 12psi, but it is a stock port after all and tuning could be a bit on the conservative side.
if the engine was not broken in prior to tuning it very well may make more as it finishes.
there's alot of variables with power figures depending on the dyno and the car it is going into, keep in mind it seems this engine was dynoed off the car and the correction factor may be on the strict side. honestly though, i don't know why shops use engine only dynos anymore unless being built for drag racing and extreme high hp applications.
and 293flywheel horsepower loosely translates to about 255wheel horsepower. which isn't bad but it is on the low side at 12psi, but it is a stock port after all and tuning could be a bit on the conservative side.
if the engine was not broken in prior to tuning it very well may make more as it finishes.
there's alot of variables with power figures depending on the dyno and the car it is going into, keep in mind it seems this engine was dynoed off the car and the correction factor may be on the strict side. honestly though, i don't know why shops use engine only dynos anymore unless being built for drag racing and extreme high hp applications.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-17-13 at 03:43 PM.
10-18-13, 11:00 AM
#42
F'n Newbie...
iTrader: (6)
I wanna say you posted up a thread regarding PFS before you took your car there and I tried to warn you away from him. You honestly will probably be better off if you just cut your losses with Ray and tow your car from Frederick up to Speed1. The last work I had Ray "complete" for me was an engine that broke in almost exactly 1,500 miles, when I opened it up the internals were worn WAAAYYYY beyond spec, the clearances were looser than a career hooker, and the refurb work he claimed to have done was nowhere to be seen. I´ll not even go into his "porting" work.
I gave PFS the option of cutting me a settlement/refund check, or taking his *** to court... The ONLY time Ray finished something with alacrity was when he faced a lawsuit, and he cut me a check for $5,000 (well, two checks for $2,500 each really) within 2 weeks.
Don´t waste your time, or money, asking PFS to build you an engine... It´ll cost you twice as much and only work half as well (if you´re lucky) as something built at Speed1.
10-18-13, 11:53 AM
#43
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
238 rwhp with intake/dp/hfc/cb at 13 psi, or 10 psi?
Sounds low, especially if at 13.
My dad's FD made 290 rwhp at 12 psi with just intake/dp/cb on an IRP Stage 1 ported engine, still passing emissions. Car still had stock main cat and intercooler.
For comparison, stock FDs would dyno around 210-215 rwhp back in the day.
Sounds low, especially if at 13.
My dad's FD made 290 rwhp at 12 psi with just intake/dp/cb on an IRP Stage 1 ported engine, still passing emissions. Car still had stock main cat and intercooler.
For comparison, stock FDs would dyno around 210-215 rwhp back in the day.
OK.. just called back to double check as I was kinda wrapped up in other questions the first time I had them on the phone.
at 10 PSI the car made 271 flywheel and 223 rear wheel
at 12 PSI it made 293 flywheel and 239 rear wheel
They did a mild break in on the new engine before tuning, running it for about a day on the dyno, or so they told me.
I DID ask for a very conservative tune, probably a psychological reaction to just having to buy a reman. ha!
Stock intercooler here to, and yes intake DP/HFC/CB/PFC and otherwise stock.
I can certainly see another 50 rwhp being found in a mild port and more aggressive tune so I suppose it makes since when compared to your dad's similar setup.
As far as Speed 1 goes, they've been fantastic. Keep paying them and they keep doing stuff. I thank my lucky stars I didn't get bogged down in the PFS runaround.
10-18-13, 12:11 PM
#44
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
a good tuner won't be dissuaded by any particular EMS, unless that EMS happens to be pure garbage.
and 293flywheel horsepower loosely translates to about 255wheel horsepower. which isn't bad but it is on the low side at 12psi, but it is a stock port after all and tuning could be a bit on the conservative side.
if the engine was not broken in prior to tuning it very well may make more as it finishes.
there's alot of variables with power figures depending on the dyno and the car it is going into, keep in mind it seems this engine was dynoed off the car and the correction factor may be on the strict side. honestly though, i don't know why shops use engine only dynos anymore unless being built for drag racing and extreme high hp applications.
and 293flywheel horsepower loosely translates to about 255wheel horsepower. which isn't bad but it is on the low side at 12psi, but it is a stock port after all and tuning could be a bit on the conservative side.
if the engine was not broken in prior to tuning it very well may make more as it finishes.
there's alot of variables with power figures depending on the dyno and the car it is going into, keep in mind it seems this engine was dynoed off the car and the correction factor may be on the strict side. honestly though, i don't know why shops use engine only dynos anymore unless being built for drag racing and extreme high hp applications.
A little more when broken in fully had crossed my mind as being a possibility. fingers crossed!
It was done on a chassis dyno but I'm not sure of the make. So I suppose the correction factor would be in speculation of flywheel HP right?
I suppose I can always take it back for more power, I was hoping for a little more after looking at similar setups on here but am for the moment very happy to have a good running car
10-19-13, 04:35 PM
#45
their numbers from the flywheel to the wheels do not jive, even a tight 2wd drivetrain usually has at most a 15% loss. as time goes on and the drivetrain wears, the numbers should actually increase from new(less drivetrain losses).
it's possible there are other minor issues such as tire pressure and/or dragging calipers.
it's possible there are other minor issues such as tire pressure and/or dragging calipers.
10-21-13, 08:08 PM
#46
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
their numbers from the flywheel to the wheels do not jive, even a tight 2wd drivetrain usually has at most a 15% loss. as time goes on and the drivetrain wears, the numbers should actually increase from new(less drivetrain losses).
it's possible there are other minor issues such as tire pressure and/or dragging calipers.
it's possible there are other minor issues such as tire pressure and/or dragging calipers.
Hmmm.
That's what I've always assumed from reading around.. about 15%.
This is the first car I've ever bothered to have dyno tuned and know there are a lot of discrepancies between models. I kinda cracked it up to that.
As far as other issues they were instructed to go through the car with a fine toothed comb and deemed it 100% mechanically aside from the bad motor and primary turbo. I hope their assessment included things like dragging breaks and tire pressure. There's certainly been enoug spent to account for those checks.
I appreciate your input, I'll triple check with them when I pick the car up. At the end of the day I did ask for an overtly safe tune and I'm really after a good example of a "properly molested" "Stock" FD here.
I'll update again when I finally get my mits on the car!
10-21-13, 08:19 PM
#48
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
10-22-13, 07:27 AM
#49
Drive your car on its current tune, and report back. Your car might be tuned awfully rich. Not trying to bash speed1, cause they are awesome; but from my experience, they tune on the rich side.
First time they tuned my stock port 13b rew on a to4s, it made 280rwhp at 11 psi. The same setup eventually did 350rwhp after leaning it out a lil.
First time they tuned my stock port 13b rew on a to4s, it made 280rwhp at 11 psi. The same setup eventually did 350rwhp after leaning it out a lil.
